I think it might have had more to do with the Gambinos vs. Carmine Galante. The murders of Carmine Consalvo and his brother are connected to a beef between Dellacroce and Galante, however, they were said to have been killed by Gigante's Genovese crew? It's all very Byzantine but there was definitely something there.

Thanks Barrett, i was just reading that.

They threw Carmine Consalvo off a roof and later they threw his brother off a roof too.

The cops called it : "The Murder Of The Flying Consalvos".

Same article said 2 drug dealers(George Adamo & Charles LaRocca) that were associates of the Gambino's were killed too. So thats a possible 4 hits, interesting.

Maybe there really is something to the story.

Right, I was trying to recall the names of the two dealers who got killed. Can anyone shed some light on the situation? What were the ties to the Genovese? Who else did Galante have whacked? Etc.

Lilo whacking Genovese and Gambino guys left to right seems to be (just like Ivy said) a Mafia urban myth. According to Vinny Teresa, while imprisoned with Lilo, Lilo pointed out some of his drug associates to Teresa and expressed his hate towards them for their stupidity. I don´t remember the exact wording, but Teresa went on to say in his book that Lilo´s associates better watch themselves when released because Lilo was blaming them for getting caught. One of these guys, apparently was Gambino member Joseph LoPiccolo. Although dying a natural death in 1999, LoPiccolo was said for many years (incorrectly) to have been one of those guys murdered by Galante. I think that Teresa´s prison story (and Teresa is now known as having been prone to stretch the truth) may have contributed, at least in some way, to the birth of the myth of Galante killing Gambino and Genovese made guys all over NY.

THE ONE TIME CARLO WAS ON CAMERA HE HAD HIS BACK TO IT AND NEVER SPOKE A WORD.

There's a video of him from the front in some documentary.

Good points Giancarlo !!!

Idk. They are obviously at least the 2nd most powerful and 2nd richest family. They coupd very well be the richest and most powerful. But the Gambino's in their prime were a money making machine. In every book I read, every show I see, everything my father has said, the Gambinos were the richest and most powerful. But we don't know for sure because we don't know actual figures. Carlo gambino was a better boss than anyone the Genovese's ever had though.

Gotti and Capone were nowhere near the worse. Take a look at Scarfo, Amuso/Casso, or Persico.

They did much more damage to their families

The Genovese family has always been the richest and most powerful. The Gambinos rivaled them in many ways, especially during Carlo's reign, but they never surpassed them. The Gambinos simply got the press but the Genovese family was more quiet, more sophisticated, and well run.

I respectfully somewhat disagree. If you take a look at the bosses convicted and sentenced throughout history up until 1998, the Gambinos had only John Gotti and Anastasia (for contempt and later tax evasion) put behind bars. Luciano, Costello, Genovese, Catena, Tieri (if boss), Salerno (if boss) and Gigante were all Genovese bosses who were convicted and sent to prison. Overall I would say (if using this factor and this is an important one in my opinion) that the Gambino bosses were far more successful in avoiding being sent to prison. And the numbers of made guys in the two crime families (atleast during the time span mentioned) has always been to the Gambinos advantage. I guess other factors can come into play such as the total money made, but honestly, how would we know the exact numbers?

Yes I agree 100% hairy. I'd probably put my money on the Gambinos for being the richest though. Because we don't know the exact figures that were being raked in. But Carlo in my opinion was the boss of all bosses. Not that he actually said that or that he was crowned that but everybody knew it. He was the boss of bosses like Luciano was. They were both never officially crowned that but everybody knew they were.

Chin they're wrapped up" ? Chin could have been a top FBI rat and got a pass on the case this gos on all the time or because it was not Chin talking himself on the bug it was hear say as Chin was not there when they was talking about him so hear say was not going to get him into Court, Fat Tony was doing a job at the time got years in prison and took it like a man and that is why Chin had him on his team.

Carlo Gambino was as good a boss as Gigante-Genovese so the power would have been the same, Gambinos fucked up from around 1983-4 right up to today,The Genovese from 1983-4 today have not had the bad luck of the Gambinos so the power would be with the Genovese right now but never count out Gambinos they have a brand name the world over and all it would take it 5 years run to tune around to the good times again for them.

I'd say Galante got killed because he had big bucks out of heroin and the others wanted to take over his racket for them self's the rest is all just lies as cover story of why they hit him.

I really do believe the Gambinos made more money though. I've neve seems anywhere that the Genovese's were more powerful and richer than the Gambino's.

First, one of the most fundamental ideas of organized crime is the organization not being dependent on a single man, even the boss. So, I'm not sure that some Gambino bosses avoiding prison, in itself, would necessarily make that family stronger.

Second, much of the belief about the Gambinos being dominant during Carlo's reign seems to have come from two false theories - 1) that Carlo was the "boss of bosses" and controlled other families. And 2) that the Genovese family suffered from lack of leadership. Of course, neither was true.

Third, even when the Gambinos were larger, it wasn't by a significant amount. Not in the way either of those families were larger than the three smaller NY families.



There's never really been such a position or mafioso wielding that kind of power here in the U.S. I suppose one could argue Giuseppe Morello in the early 20th century, or Salvatore Maranzano for a brief period before he was killed, but even those are a stretch. The closest thing to that was Toto Riina in Sicily. Gambino was, at most, the first among equals.



You should read more.

In 1990, one FBI official (Richard Ross) said, "You keep hearing all this crap about Gotti being the boss of the bosses, but the Genovese have always been the country's most powerful family."

In 1994, in his testimony in a case against the Mason Tenders Union, former Lucchese acting boss Al D'Arco said, "I have always considered the Genovese Family to be the most powerful LCN family in the United States."

A contributor Jerry Capeci used in his old Gang Land News articles back in the day, who answered questions under "Ask Andy," said "The Genovese family has probably been the most powerful La Cosa Nostra family of the last hundred years."

In 2000, while talking about the Commission Case, former NY federal prosecutor Michael Chertoff said, "The Genovese family, I think, in many ways was the most powerful family in the country in terms of it's domination and exploitation of labor unions and legitimate businesses."

In Selwyn Raab's book 2006 book Five Families, on page 315, he writes that the Genovese family were believed to be "more affluent" than the Gambinos.

It's the Genovese family that has always been referred to as the "Ivy League of the Underworld, the "Rolls Royce of Organized Crime," and who one law enforcement official said had "more or less invented labor racketeering."

Again, while a good argument can be made that the Gambinos rivaled the Genovese for about 35 years (from the late 1950's to early 1990's), there is really little to no evidence that they ever supplanted them.

You seem very intent on convincing me that the Genovese's are the richest and most powerful. And that's fine I respect your persistency. But those quotes are all cherry picked. I bet for every quote you find someone say the Genovese's are the most powerful you'll find one that says the Gambino's are the most powerful. The Genovese's knew they couldn't take on the Gambinos by themselves when Gotti was boss that's why they teamed up with the lucchese's. And that wasn't even during the Gambino family's prime. Let me take a quote out of Phil Leonetti's book, "At that time, the Gambino's were the most powerful family in La Cosa Nostra and Carlo Gambino, who was known as Don Carlo, was the il capo di tutti capi, the boss of all bosses, who sat at the head of the commission". Direct quote from Phil Leonetti in his book, "Mafia Prince".

There hasn't been a boss of all bosses since Salvatore Maranzano. Do you honestly think Carlo was the boss of guys like Tommy Luchesse and the various Genovese bosses lol? I agree hewas the most powerful boss of his time but this still doesn't mean he had that position. No matter what Leonetti said.

Well, boss of all bosses in my opinion doesn't necessarily mean that you control every single boss in this case. Luciano made sure there would be nobody who actually controlled every boss. But lucky was boss of all bosses. The title was still there but the definition was basically changed. But it means you are recognized as the most powerful boss. You are the most respected boss. No boss does anything in your territory without your blessing. I think the lucchese's and Genovese's would be more frightened of the repercussions of moving in on gambino territory than the Gambino's would be if they moved in on their territory. And I would take Phil Leonetti's word being that he was a high ranking member in the mob. I think he would know which family is the most powerful at that time.

I think people take the title "boss of all bosses" too literal.

That's exactly what boss of bosses means, and neither Carlo or Luciano fit that description. No matter what description you try to make for it. He was the most powerful boss,but it didn't mean he could make decisions for other families.Also it could be argued that Luciano wasn't even the most poweful boss, since it seemed that Mangano,Bonnano,Profaci and Maggadino were closely allied.

Also you were accusing Ivy of cherry picking quotes. When you took one from Leonetti, that according to you holds more weight than the 7 or 8 Ivy produced.

It does hold more weight are you kidding me? Lol. Leonetti was actually in the mob. He was an underboss. I think I would put more stock into what Phil Leonetti has to say about the mob than Jerry Capeci or the other guys who were quoted. Jerry Capeci is very credible but compared to Leonetti it's not even close. There's been many mobsters who have called him boss of all bosses or head of the commission. And it was just a little friendly shot at him, I never use quotes. The Gambino crime family was more powerful and wealthier than the Genovese's during their prime from what I always hear. I think the Genovese's are only known as the "Ivy league" because Luciano was the founder of them and he is a legendary figure. I wouldn't say everyone else outside of gigante was a great boss. None of their bosses knew how to stay out of prison. None of their bosses were ever as effective as Carlo was in terms of staying out of jail and wielding so much power. They never really had a boss as great as carlo was. Chin was never the boss that carlo was. One got convicted and the other didn't. Not that that necessarily makes someone a better boss but it helps. But maybe I should've said head of the commission if that makes you feel better. The definition of boss of all bosses is obviously different to everyone else in the mob when they call carlo and lucky boss of all bosses.

I am in no way belittling the power of the Genovese's but unjust saying I believe in their prime, the gambino crime family was stronger.

So a philly guys quote holds more weight than the acting boss of a NY familly .

On the flip side to the Genovese bosses ending up in jail. Mangano,Anastasia and Castellano were killed and both Gotti's died in jail.

And you seem very intent on clinging to your preconceived notions, no matter what is put in front of you. You can believe whatever you want. I just think you've read the same superficial hype regarding the Gambinos without really looking deeper into things. The fact that you think there has ever been a "boss of bosses" shows as much. Luciano created the Commission, in part, so there wouldn't be that very thing. There can certainly be a single most powerful or influential boss. And Gambino was that at one time. But that doesn't mean he was the boss of the other bosses or had the kind of power where that title wold be in any way fitting. Nor did him being the top boss mean his family was automatically the most powerful. Let's not forget that Massino chaired the Commission meeting back in 2000 (Chin, Gotti, Amuso, and Persico were in prison) but nobody is going to argue that automatically meant the Bonannos were the top family.



Chin farmed out the hit to Casso because it was smart to keep things at arm's length. It was the Gambinos who didn't respond even after they had good reason to believe Chin was behind the DeCicco car bombing.



You keep talking about what you "always hear." I read the same stuff when I first started reading books on the mob. And there's probably more books on the Gambinos, particularly because of Gotti, than any other family (except maybe Chicago because of Capone, etc.) But once you study things more in depth, you get a different picture.

The Genovese family has been referred to the "Ivy League" and "Rolls Royce" of the mob by law enforcement because they've always been the most sophisticated family. The smartest, shrewdest, and most disciplined. You can talk about Carlo on an individual basis all you want, but the Genovese family has always had a "deeper bench," as one FBI official put it.

The Genovese family started out as the most powerful, originating with Morello, then Masseria, and later led by Luciano. The question is, how and when exactly did the Gambinos supplant them as the top family? You and some others may say when Carlo took over or during his reign at some point. But how did that, in itself, make the Gambinos stronger? This is where we go back to what I was talking about before - the idea that Gambino was the "boss of bosses" while the Genovese suffered from lack of leadership. And neither was true.

So, I ask again, how did the Gambinos supplant the Genovese? It was still the Genovese family that represented several east coast families on the Commission. It was the Genovese that had more of a national presence. The Gambinos rivaled the Genovese in various NY industries but the Genovese always had more labor union clout. Not to mention political clout. And it seems the Genovese always had the largest gambling and loansharking operations.

When Carlo was boss, that's when they supplanted them. It was obvious that they were the most powerful crime family in NYC during his reign. And comparing masino to gambino is a joke. And I disagree. The Genovese's never had a really great boss who was able to stay out of prison. That's it. Whether you want to call it hype or not, they're experts saying this. And you are not an expert. You know your stuff but you are not one.

And no, they said it in Casso's book. They said the Gambino's weren't scared to take on one family but multiple families could be a problem. In Casso's book he made it pretty clear that the Gambino's were the strongest. Hence, supplanting the Genovese's