The topic of the outfit being an enigma got me thinking. How do we know the Genovese are the most powerful family in the US?

Not starting a "i don't believe it" thread. I think they are. Just was interested to look at it from a different perspective. Perhaps to see why we know so little about the outfit. What's different?

How do we know so much about the Genovese? How do we know they are so powerful? Where does the info come from?

Thoughts?

its what fbi says

The Genovese family is now dominant. They remain a very powerful group. The Gambinos have dropped to Number 2. In the Genovese family, you really don't have that many defectors. They're still very entrenched in the unions and construction industry."
- Jack Garcia, former FBI agent (2011)

"The Genovese family is a very, very strong family. They're the most efficient family because they're so secretive. People within the family don't even know who each other are. They are very disciplined in their criminal plots and they keep their hit teams small. Infilatration by law enforcement is very difficult. They continue to use violence to ensure compliance. We haven't had widespread disruption of the Genoveses like we had with the other families. Gigante's secrecy permeated the ranks and it still exists. If someone in the Genovese family slips up, they're dead before you know it. - Dave Shafer, Head of FBI Organized Crime Program (2009)

The crime family formed 80 years ago and named after Vito Genovese has endured like no other.
- NY Daily News article (2009)

"The Genovese family is the most secretive, criminally diverse, and powerful family in the country. Their power stems from control of unions and major industries."
- Michael Campi, FBI Organized Crime Dept. (2006)

"The Genovese crime family is still the best organized and has the deepest bench."
- Daniel Castleman, Chief of Investigations - Manhattan District (2006)

"The (Genovese family's) members and rackets surpass all others."
- Jerry Capeci, Gangland News columnist (2006)

"The Genovese crime family is the the most organized, most powerful, largest organized-crime family existing today."
- Eric Snyder, Assistant U.S. Attorney (2006)

“The Genovese family is the most prolific and most powerful of New York’s five organized crime families.”
– Mark J. Mershon, Assistant Director FBI’s New York Office (2006)

"The FBI's Joint Organized Crime Task Force, which includes members of the New York police department, had little luck with conventional surveillance of the Genovese family."
- ZD Net article (2006)

"The Genovese Crime Family is widely considered by law enforcement as the most powerful of the mob families in the New York Metropolitan area, if not the entire country."
- Jim Kouri, National Association of Chiefs of Police (2005)

"It has the most sophisticated operations. The Genovese family has always been considered the Ivy League of the Mafia."
- Selwyn Raab, New York Times columnist (2005)

"Still the most powerful and influential is the Genovese family."
- Bruce Mouw, Former FBI Supervisor (2005)

"While centered in the New York metropolitan region, the Genovese family also maintains a presence in portions of New Jersey, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, Florida, Nevada, and California. The family has strong connections with other traditional and non-traditional organized crime groups throughout the United States. Of all the traditional LCN families, the Genovese has the most contact with non-traditional criminal organizations and the money and power they command. Not only is the Genovese family the strongest LCN group in the nation, but it also is the most unique. Elements of this group persist in the solid waste industry, on the waterfront, in organized labor and in public construction. It runs the largest bookmaking and loan sharking rings in the New York/New Jersey metropolitan area. The family’s other major criminal enterprises include extortion and labor racketeering in the construction, demolition, asbestos removal, carting, recycling, trucking, and waterfront industries; theft and kickbacks from pension funds; insurance fraud; narcotics trafficking; infiltration of legitimate businesses; and public corruption. Its influence is particularly strong on the Port Newark/Elizabeth and Hudson County waterfronts. While the organization continues to commit traditional crimes such as murder, extortion, racketeering, loan sharking and illegal gambling, it has evolved into committing more sophisticated crimes, such as computer fraud, stock/securities fraud and health-care fraud. Many of these crimes are committed with the assistance of non-traditional organized crime groups, such as those with Russian and Cuban members. Of all the traditional LCN families, the Genovese group has the most contact with non-traditional criminal organizations, and the money and power they command. The Genovese family has a proven record of resiliency that has enabled it to maintain a grip on lucrative segments of the legitimate economy despite repeated assualts by law enforcement."
- New Jersey Commission of Investigation on Organized Crime (2004)

"The Genovese family is the Rolls-Royce of organized crime."
- Loretta Lynch, U.S. Attorney-Brooklyn (2003)

"I consider the Genovese family to be the Ivy League of the underworld. They more or less invented labor racketeering."
- Joe Coffey, New York Police Dept. (2003)

"The Genovese family remains the richest, most powerful, most secretive, and least damaged crime group."
- Barry W. Mawn, FBI New York Office (2001)

"Despite a two-decade-long crackdown on organized crime that had decimated other Mafia families, the Genovese family has flourished. It is the largest and most financially successful crime family in New York."
- U.S. Attorney Mary Jo White (2001)

"The Genovese crime family is widely known in law enforcement as the Ivy League of the underworld. The family that gets it right."
- John Miller, FBI media spokesman (2001)

"The Genovese family was in many ways, I think, the most powerful family in the country in terms of it's domination and exploitation of labor unions and legitimate businesses."
- Michael Chertoff, former NY federal prosecutor (2000)

Federal authorities said the Genovese family is the most powerful and diversified in the United States. While investigators have dealt crippling blows to the city's four other major crime families, including the Gambinos, the Genovese remained intact partly by sticking to construction and labor racketeering schemes and avoiding drug dealing, authorities say.
- Associated Press article (1996)

The Genovese concern, long held by many mob watchers to be the wealthiest and most powerful of New York's five families, has maintained sophisticated construction and labor racketeering schemes as others dumbed down to drug dealing and street rackets.
- NY Daily News article (1996)

"This was a family that for many years we did not have as great success in hurting as we did with the other families. Historically they have been a very guarded and careful family, and Gigante represents that approach to the ultimate degree."
Lewis Schiliro, Head of FBI NY Criminal Division (1996)

"The Genovese family has probably been the most powerful La Cosa Nostra family of the last hundred years."
- Ask Andy, Gangland News (1996)

"The Buffalo, Cleveland, Detroit, New England, New Jersey, Philadelphia, and Pittsburgh families are represented on the Commission by the Genovese family."
- LIUNA RICO indictment (1995)

"The Genovese family survives because it stayed out of the drug trade. Now they control all the traditional businesses of La Cosa Nostra and they're getting stronger."
- Joe Coffey, New York Police Dept. (1995)

"The Genovese family has become dominant among New York's Italian Mafia."
- Peter Maas, Author (1995)

"If anybody survives it will be the Genovese."
- Anthony Accetturo, Lucchese LCN family Captain (1994)

"If there is a major trend, it is the consolidation of power by the Genovese family."
- William Y. Doran, Head of the FBI's New York Criminal Division (1994)

"I have always considered the Genovese Family to be the most powerful LCN family in the United States."
- Al D'Arco, Lucchese LCN family Acting Boss (1994)

"The Genovese family is the most stable, the best counseled and the most diversified business-crime group in the country."
- Lee Brown, New York City Police Commissioner (1990)

"You keep hearing all this crap about Gotti being the boss of the bosses, but the Genovese have always been the country's most powerful family."
- Richard Ross, FBI (1990)

"The Genovese family is the most sophisticated, cautious, secretive, and powerful Cosa Nostra family in the United States."
- Phil Leonetti, Philadelphia LCN Underboss (1989)

Activity leads to indictments and arrests, which we read about. The more activity, the more there is to read about. The less activity, the less there is to read about. Which is why we hear most about the NY families. And after them, we hear the most about families in New England, Philadephia, or Chicago. And it's why there isn't a lot of information of mob activity out of places like Pittsburgh, Tampa, St. Louis, or LA.

it's clear they are the most secretive. We still don't know who their boss is even though the feds have a task force solely on them.

There are stories of made guys having no clue who to kick up to because they don't know any captains. That's smart of them though, you'd think the other families would start doing it like this. Then maybe when they get one rat it won't end up with a domino effect taking out about 15 of them.

IvyLeague, just wondering. You must have backed up all these quotes in a word or notepad file for just in case, no?

The Genovese family has been said to require less money kicked up to them by their soldiers than those in other families. But every made guy knows who his captain is. Who he has to report to.



Yeah, since a lot of the same discussions pop up from time to time, it's easier to go to "the files" then type again what one has already said a dozen times.

I was wondering the same thing.

Thanks for the info, Ivy League.

With the Genovese being so secretive, how has there inner workings changed? How do they operate differently? Or are they just doing what they have been doing for many years?

Are there less sit downs? Are there less meetings between Captains? Are crews run differently?

Thanks.

Well, for starters they are more selective about who they let in than other families. It seems they don't make guys just because there are empty slots to fill. Quality attracts quality just as incompetence can attract more incompetence. I think a crucial time was the Commission case. The Gambinos went from Castellano to Gotti. The Luccheses went from Tony Ducks to Vic and Gas. The Colombos ended up still being at each other's throats. The Bonannos had a decent run for a while but only because the feds took their eye off the ball with that family. Once that changed, Massino's house of cards fell. The Genovese didn't skip a beat when Fat Tony went away. Law enforcement credited Chin with exceptional ability in picking loyal captains. And, even after his death, many of those same guys continued to run the family. The attrition of quality is there in the family, but it's not nearly as apparent or has come on as quick as in the other families.

They also continue to enforce policy by violence, including murder. Larry Ricci ended up in a trunk because he wouldn't take a plea deal. Al Bruno was killed because he was suspected of being an informant. As Chin once said, "We don't break our captains. We kill them."

Another factor is Genovese members, on average, being wealthier than their counterparts in other families. There isn't as much jockying for position in order to get rich. A lot of these guys are already rich. And already having money means they don't have to become as involved in dangerous endeavors such as drug trafficking.

Still another factor was the family's quickness to take plea deals, which dramatically cuts the amount of prison time a guy does; giving him less reason to flip.

Genovese guys have also been known to be exceptionally wary of surveillance. There's well known stories about Dom Cirillo having his driver go the wrong way up freeway ramps to lose tails. Or Tino Fiumara hiding in the trunk of a car on the way to meetings. Or Barney Bellomo walking up to an FBI surveillance van, after he spotted it, and looking in the window. Not to mention them making guys who are just in a robe, so as not to risk the ceremony being recorded.

Beyond that, I think much of it has to do with them always having been at the top; even going back to the days of Masseria and before. It's easier to stay on top if you've started there then get there from below.

A couple questions for you Ivy.

Firstly, is it really true the Genovese are staying away from drug trafficking? I'm sure you can find a few examples, but I'm saying relative to the other families.

Next, who were these loyal captains that The Chin bumped up that impressed the FBI?

Good point about starting at the top. To an extent, it was all laid out since the beginning. A good example is in the 30's, the Al Mineo Gang was noted for its high amount of made guys. The Gambinos never had to worry about replenishing their ranks.

Ivy League, with the Genovese boss spot being vacant, who do you think is actually there?

The Genovese family is relatively less involved in drug trafficking. Obviously, with a family that size, there's always going to be some who are dealing. But when looking at the Gambinos, the only other family that rivals the Genovese in size, the Gambinos are much deeper involved in the drug trade.



I don't know if the feds were referring to anyone in particular but probably more to all of Chin's captains in general. If you look at the time he became boss until he died, not one of the guys who became a captain or higher under Chin flipped. Even though many of them were prosecuted and did long prison stints.



I still don't think anyone has officially replaced Gigante to become the next official boss. While other families are going back to the traditional administration, it seems the Genovese are content to continue to use acting bosses or ruling panels.

After Danny Leo went to prison, the family was reportedly being run by a rotating panel of recently released high-level members: Benny Mangano, Barney Bellomo, Ernie Muscarella, and Larry Dentico. About a year later, it was said that Tino Fiumara was on the panel when he died, along with two other guys.

Even though these west side guys seem to go forever, it wouldn't surprise me if the really old guys like Benny Mangano, Larry Dentico, Dom Cirillo, Matty Ianniello, Mario Gigante, etc. are more or less retired. In my opinion, the safer bet would be on the relatively younger guys like Bellomo and Muscarella. Especially considering most of the family's leaders come from that crew anyway.

Bellomo is probably the official boss. Its completely understandable they they don't want that released to the world.

It could be Leo who is the official boss, who when imprisoned until 2013 could have appointed a panel.

As for Mario Gigante, the Feds have assumed that he is retired. It makes you wonder if they know anything about this family at all.

Considering that they are very secretive, could be that Paulie Stripes is real, has been hidden from the world and leads the charge officially.

Or Paulie Stripes could be the Feds' longest serving mole and taken the top spot to completely destroy the Genovese's forever.

Being from Ridgewood, I sometimes wonder how the Genovese got involved in killing a cop.

I figure the shooter was a paranoid mobster who was stealing or dealing drugs, and thought the cop was actually a hitman and shot him.

http://www.russbaker.com/archives/New%20York%20Magazine%20-%20The%20Cop%20Out,%20December.htm

Skinny (or anyone else for that matter), there used to be a Genovese loanshark operating from the ridgewood section during the 70s and 80s by the name of Vince Lamattina. Do you know if the guy´s still around?

i think the feds are too quick to point somebody as retired i doubt these man retired if not really with some mental diseases or coz particulare events
i doubt benny mangano, mario gigante and other old men are retired same for other families

Ivy and others,

I have also read that the Genovese Family required less money to be kicked up, especially under Chin. Just curious, but what is the source of this?

I thought there was some mention of it in a book in the Windows Case with Peter Sorvino, but I thought it was that the $ was spread around the Captains and Admin, and maybe some of it flowed to the soldiers as well.

This can NOT be understated. In other families, especially the Gambinos under Gotti, people were killed because they took plea deals. Ricci was killed because he wouldn't take one.

The Genoveses (and the Luccheses, under Crea, who has made an art of the plea deal) were wily enough to realize that long prison stretches for the top guys add up to less money. They take the five and ten year deals because they realize it's better to be out in ten and making money than to be in for twenty to life. It has served them well.

No kidding.

Raab mentioned it in his book, Five Families. But I think he had also reported that before he wrote the book. A lot of his material for it came from all his articles over the years.

To stimulate growth? What shows their power to me is the fact that the actual boss of the family was not even mentioned in the case. From what i understand the Chin wasnt involved in the case at all and he was the boss for atleast 3 years by then. I know some may say neither was Gotti but he became boss pretty much during the case.

I think that was the result of Chin having Fat Tony attend the Commission meetings, hold the making ceremonies, and do a lot of other things the boss is supposed to do. In hindsight, one can't blame the feds for believing Salerno was the boss. He was doing much of what a boss does. They just didn't know, as Cafaro later said, he had to put all major decisions on record with Chin.

Going back to why the Genovese family is the top family in the country, I think you could sum it up by 3 basic things...

1. They're the largest, best organized, and most secretive family.

2. They control the largest bookmaking and loansharking operations in the New York/New Jersey area.

3. They have the most labor racketeering activity left.

How did the Chin enforce this though, like how did he make Salerno feel subordinate, did Fat Tony at all resent the Chin using him?



This, this, this!

Salerno has widely been labeled as a "frontboss" for Gigante. I believe that the term was invented by the Feds or the prosecutors when they after the successful convictions in the Commission case had to explain the fact that Salerno actually was not the boss of the Genoveses. Instead of admitting that they actually had targeted the wrong guy (which could have endangered the conviction and maybe the entire case), they got off with claiming "well, Salerno was a frontboss".
This was an evasive maneuver and a tactic that had worked before. For example, after launching the war on the Mafia in the late 1950s, Hoover (who had denied the Mafia´s existence for many years) got off by saying "Mafia? It doesn´t exist. However, La Cosa Nostra do exist and we have been keeping track on these guys for many years!" By changing name of the organisation, he saved himself from embarrassment.

Salerno most probably held the underboss spot within the Genovese family. The underboss, according to the old Mafia tradition, is the boss´s alter ego. In many cases they were supposed to act and think the same. That is why a boss often sent his underboss to various functions such as meetings and induction ceremonies. This is how Gigante operated and it suited him ofcourse.

The idea of having a "frontboss" as an extra level within the hierarchy of a Family is totally out of whack (in my opinion).
Who would want to have such a position within the Family to protect and shield the boss and risk being caught? After all, the mobsters on the top, are not foolish.

1 of the 2 turncoats from the springfield mass. crew said they were made in springfield in 1982 that guy felix trangrese or somthing i wonder if fat tony took the ride up north. and when they made that guy fusco who just beat a double murder he was made in mass by the capo of there crew. i think they let capo's do there makings sometimes, it would be alot easier, and makes sense put a crew of 8 guys they trust to make the new guy, but antoher springfield rat said he went to the bronx with nigro to get made in a vacant apartment. the guy cookie got one guy on tape saing they made 15 guys in 1 nite in 99. in the book 5 familes they show the house morris levy the record mogul gave chin 4 floor upper eastside town house for a gift is worth 5mill?maybe more, i think more. that guy benny eggs is worth a ton.

I've always looked at it as Fat Tony was the acting boss for Chin, who was the official boss. Salerno was acting in the boss' stead, performing all the duties of a boss. I've never cared for the term "front boss," since it implies an unwitting guy who lets himself to be set up for the fall. Salerno wasn't an idiot and that wasn't the situation.

Anthony Salerno wasn't the brightest guy in the mob -

On a federal wiretap he was heard saying to Matthew Iannello concerning inductions in other families:

"I don't know none of them. They don't put the nicknames down here....but anyway, I'll leave this up to the boss"

Did he know the wiretap was there? Did he feel he wasn't important enough to be bugged so he spoke so openly? Did he think the family was so secretive that the feds could do nothing to get them?


On other wiretap, Genovese soldier Giuseppe Sabato stated to Salerno:

"Forget about the papers. There's arrests next week. I'm pretty sure Paul and the other guy and Tony Ducks. I'm pretty sure I'll found out tonight. If they get Chin they're wrapped up"

Continuing to Salerno, Sabato states:

"All, all the finagling, all the manipulating, manipulating and manipulating, to fool the government, f-k it, it won't stick"

Salerno states:

"He's got to worry if he gets pinched, all them years he spent in that f-kin asylum. For nothing"

Discussing the boss so openly, Salerno wasn't the cleverest of them. Hell, why wasn't he killed for this?

Joseph Gorgone, a Colombo soldier was threatened by Chin because he stated that he wasn't really crazy. What he said was caugnt on an FBI wiretap. Obviously ignored by them, as was the words from Salerno:

"I'll leave this up to the boss".

No wonder the feds can't beat the mob - it was designed to be indestructable

Lots of guys get caught on bugs and wiretaps. Fat Tony did. Castellano did. Tony Ducks did. Even Chin was caught talking to either his wife or mistress (don't recall which) on the phone in a normal demeanor; i.e. not playing crazy.