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Women In Combat #648459
05/24/12 05:55 AM
05/24/12 05:55 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
Lilo Offline OP
Lilo  Offline OP

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
I guess a lawsuit was inevitable. And so it happened.
I have mixed feelings about this but would probably come down against it. But I have no combat/military experience. I wonder what people who have actually served think. From what I can tell this area remains a situation where aggressiveness, strength/endurance and unit cohesion is paramount. And men generally want to protect women, not see them killed. On the other hand wars have changed and become more fluid. And if someone is willing to die for their country why not let her? Hmm.
Women Sue to Lift Combat Ban

Quote:
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Two female soldiers filed suit on Wednesday to scrap the U.S. military's restrictions on women in combat, claiming the policy violated their constitutional rights.
Command Sergeant Major Jane Baldwin and Colonel Ellen Haring, both Army reservists, said policies barring them from assignments "solely on the basis of sex" violated their right to equal protection under the Fifth Amendment of the Constitution.
"This limitation on plaintiffs' careers restricts their current and future earnings, their potential for promotion and advancement, and their future retirement benefits," the women said in the suit filed in U.S. District Court.
Defense Secretary Leon Panetta and Army Secretary John McHugh are among the defendants. Baldwin is from Tallahassee, Florida, and Haring lives in Bristow, Virginia.
The Pentagon unveiled a new policy in February that opened up 14,000 more positions to women in the military. It still barred them from serving in infantry, armor and special-operations units whose main job is front-line combat.


"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives."
Winter is Coming

Now this is the Law of the Jungle—as old and as true as the sky; And the wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the wolf that shall break it must die.
As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk, the Law runneth forward and back; For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.
Re: Women In Combat [Re: Lilo] #648471
05/24/12 09:49 AM
05/24/12 09:49 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline
Consigliere to the Stars
dontomasso  Offline
Consigliere to the Stars

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
I have no problem with women being fighter pilots, ship captains , etc. When it comes to front line combat there should be physical standards that apply across the board. For examle I doubt they would let a 5'4" 145 pound man fight on the frint lines, and the same should apply for a woman. If the military has not done so already, they should implement regulations for people fighting on front lines accorrding to height weight, ho much can they lift, etc. Then when unified standards are in place either gender could serve.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: Women In Combat [Re: dontomasso] #648478
05/24/12 11:51 AM
05/24/12 11:51 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 25,984
California
The Italian Stallionette Offline
The Italian Stallionette  Offline

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 25,984
California
The fact is, I never served in any military branch AND I admittedly would not to want for various reasons. One being, I doubt I'd make thru basic training lol; I'd hate to be bossed around; AND the wardrobe sucks.

Joking aside, I respect everyone who does have the courage to serve. I see nothing wrong with women being equal to men in serving in the military. YET I tend to agree with the physical issue. Women just are NOT (generally) as strong or maybe as physically resistant as a man. I know that, even tho in good health, and even if I were of age, I definitely would have physical restrictions (i.e. lifting). I just am not a big strong person.

I would not want to stomp on anyone's right tho. Maybe they could let those women who want to go to battle go, but not make it an automatic?? confused

TIS

Last edited by The Italian Stallionette; 05/24/12 11:52 AM.

"Mankind must put an end to war before war puts an end to mankind. War will exist until that distant day when the conscientious objector enjoys the same reputation and prestige that the warrior does today." JFK

"War is over, if you want it" - John Lennon

Re: Women In Combat [Re: The Italian Stallionette] #648479
05/24/12 11:59 AM
05/24/12 11:59 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
pizzaboy Offline
The Fuckin Doctor
pizzaboy  Offline
The Fuckin Doctor

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
Originally Posted By: The Italian Stallionette
YET I tend to agree with the physical issue. Women just are NOT (generally) as strong or maybe as physically resistant as a man.

Exacty, Tis. Men and women are equal, but it doesn't mean that we're the same.

Call me old fashioned, but I just don't like the idea.


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: Women In Combat [Re: dontomasso] #648481
05/24/12 12:10 PM
05/24/12 12:10 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,414
Bar Vitelli, Queens, NY
Signor Vitelli Offline
Underboss
Signor Vitelli  Offline
Underboss
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,414
Bar Vitelli, Queens, NY
Originally Posted By: dontomasso
... I doubt they would let a 5'4" 145 pound man fight on the frint lines...


I don't know what today's standards are (if, indeed, there are any), but I can tell you that back in World War II, my father - who was 5'2", and not exactly an outstanding physical specimen - was sent to the front. Everyone but him was killed, and then (with his emotional state hanging by a thread), they sent him back again almost immediately. Almost the identical thing happened, and he had a total breakdown. He never wanted to discuss his wartime experiences; I found all this out from my aunt (his sister) after his death.

I also knew a co-worker years ago who served in the Korean War (in the Navy) as part of a destroyer escort. He was even shorter than my father, but he was one tough SOB.

So, as far as physical requirements for combat? For men, I kinda doubt there are any. But, I could be wrong.

Sorry for the thread drift.

Signor V.


"For me, there's only my wife..."

"Sure I cook with wine - sometimes I even add it to the food!"

"When life itself seems lunatic, who knows where madness lies?"

"It was a grass harp... And we listened."

"Do any human beings ever realize life while they live it? Every, every minute?"

"No. Saints and poets, maybe... they do some."


Re: Women In Combat [Re: Lilo] #648482
05/24/12 12:20 PM
05/24/12 12:20 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 17,300
New York
Sicilian Babe Offline
Sicilian Babe  Offline

Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 17,300
New York
During WWII, I think you needed to be Helen Keller to qualify as 4F. They drafted EVERYONE, and almost everyone was sent into battle.

I'm not sure how I feel about women in combat. Any woman who has been in a physical confrontation with any man, even if it was horsing around with an older brother, can testify to the fact that men are physically stronger, almost to an extreme.


President Emeritus of the Neal Pulcawer Fan Club
Re: Women In Combat [Re: Lilo] #648485
05/24/12 01:05 PM
05/24/12 01:05 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,019
Texas
O
olivant Offline
olivant  Offline
O

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,019
Texas
I too don't want to see women in combat. Images of men as captives and having been injured or killed is hard enough; we don't need women playing havoc with our emotions.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Women In Combat [Re: Lilo] #648509
05/24/12 04:19 PM
05/24/12 04:19 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
I
IvyLeague Offline
IvyLeague  Offline
I

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
Women in combat - wrong and just another sign of the crumbling of our society. End of story.

(Not to mention the fact there's something seriously wrong any woman who wants to be in combat.)

Last edited by IvyLeague; 05/24/12 04:22 PM.

Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
Re: Women In Combat [Re: IvyLeague] #648511
05/24/12 04:23 PM
05/24/12 04:23 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,292
NJ
carmela Offline
Underboss
carmela  Offline
Underboss
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,292
NJ
Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
Women in combat - wrong and just another sign of the crumbling of our society. End of story.

(Not to mention the fact there's something seriously wrong any woman who wants to be in combat.)


In the words of Blanche Devereux: I don't want to be your equal. I want to be treated much much better than you.


La madre degli idioti e' sempre incinta.

Re: Women In Combat [Re: carmela] #648513
05/24/12 04:27 PM
05/24/12 04:27 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
I
IvyLeague Offline
IvyLeague  Offline
I

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
Originally Posted By: carmela

In the words of Blanche Devereux: I don't want to be your equal. I want to be treated much much better than you.


My sentiments exactly. I don't women in combat because I think they're inferior. It's because I hold them in much higher esteem than men.

This is just another example of how the twisted liberal idea of "equality" undermines certain traditional roles that are there for good reason.


Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
Re: Women In Combat [Re: IvyLeague] #648516
05/24/12 04:45 PM
05/24/12 04:45 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,019
Texas
O
olivant Offline
olivant  Offline
O

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,019
Texas
Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
Originally Posted By: carmela

In the words of Blanche Devereux: I don't want to be your equal. I want to be treated much much better than you.


My sentiments exactly. I don't women in combat because I think they're inferior. It's because I hold them in much higher esteem than men.

This is just another example of how the twisted liberal idea of "equality" undermines certain traditional roles that are there for good reason.


... and, accordingly, Israel is doomed!


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Women In Combat [Re: olivant] #648520
05/24/12 04:58 PM
05/24/12 04:58 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
I
IvyLeague Offline
IvyLeague  Offline
I

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
Originally Posted By: olivant

... and, accordingly, Israel is doomed!


Israel is a special case. When a nation or a people is truly faced with destruction, than it's a different story. There is no need, whatsoever, for women in the U.S. military to be in combat. Or on submarines. Or in a lot of other areas. It's all about political correctness. Not reality.


Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
Re: Women In Combat [Re: IvyLeague] #648565
05/25/12 05:11 AM
05/25/12 05:11 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 8,845
Newcastle-upon-Tyne UK
Yogi Barrabbas Offline
Yogi Barrabbas  Offline

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 8,845
Newcastle-upon-Tyne UK
I know that if i was in a jam i wouldn't want anybody but my wife to fight my corner cos she is one ferocious tigress smile


I would rather die on my feet than live on my knees!
Re: Women In Combat [Re: Yogi Barrabbas] #648566
05/25/12 05:13 AM
05/25/12 05:13 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 8,845
Newcastle-upon-Tyne UK
Yogi Barrabbas Offline
Yogi Barrabbas  Offline

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 8,845
Newcastle-upon-Tyne UK
Of course i wouldn't want to see her fighting in Afghanistan if i could help it....but that's just me being selfish!!!!


I would rather die on my feet than live on my knees!
Re: Women In Combat [Re: Lilo] #649193
05/30/12 03:23 PM
05/30/12 03:23 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,019
Texas
O
olivant Offline
olivant  Offline
O

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,019
Texas
By Pamela Sitt:

Is breast-feeding while in uniform conduct unbecoming to a military mom? The debate over nursing in public got a new layer recently, when photos taken on an Air Force base began to circulate online. In the series of tasteful professional photos showing beaming moms as they nurse their kids, one jumps out: the photo of two servicewomen with their uniform shirts unbuttoned and hiked up to breast-feed.

"A lot of people are saying it's a disgrace to the uniform. They're comparing it to urinating and defecating [while in uniform]," says Crystal Scott, a military spouse who started Mom2Mom in January as a breast-feeding support group for military moms and "anyone related to the base" at Fairchild AFB outside Spokane, Wash. "It's extremely upsetting. Defecating in public is illegal. Breast-feeding is not."


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Women In Combat [Re: Lilo] #649252
05/31/12 06:57 AM
05/31/12 06:57 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
Lilo Offline OP
Lilo  Offline OP

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
Ok. I get human duality but those pics are , I don't know, odd. From what I get a mother's job is to nurture and protect her young while a soldier's job is to contribute to the destruction of the enemy. So it just seems out of place.

Maybe that's just my own bias. I get it. Many mothers breastfeed. Why do some people feel the need to make sure everyone knows they breastfeed.


"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives."
Winter is Coming

Now this is the Law of the Jungle—as old and as true as the sky; And the wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the wolf that shall break it must die.
As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk, the Law runneth forward and back; For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.
Re: Women In Combat [Re: Lilo] #649298
05/31/12 02:07 PM
05/31/12 02:07 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 225
DeMeo Offline
Made Member
DeMeo  Offline
Made Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 225
While it is completely normal to breastfeed, I don't actually want to see it.

I saw one doing it before sitting opposite me in the pub. Uncomfortable atmosphere.

Even the baby was looking at me as it was feeding. Afterwards, me and several others voiced our opposition and it never happened again.

Re: Women In Combat [Re: Lilo] #649320
05/31/12 04:21 PM
05/31/12 04:21 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
I
IvyLeague Offline
IvyLeague  Offline
I

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
Originally Posted By: Lilo
Ok. I get human duality but those pics are , I don't know, odd. From what I get a mother's job is to nurture and protect her young while a soldier's job is to contribute to the destruction of the enemy. So it just seems out of place.


For once, we agree on something.


Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
Re: Women In Combat [Re: IvyLeague] #649348
05/31/12 07:32 PM
05/31/12 07:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
Lilo Offline OP
Lilo  Offline OP

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
Originally Posted By: Lilo
Ok. I get human duality but those pics are , I don't know, odd. From what I get a mother's job is to nurture and protect her young while a soldier's job is to contribute to the destruction of the enemy. So it just seems out of place.


For once, we agree on something.

Stranger things have happened... whistle


"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives."
Winter is Coming

Now this is the Law of the Jungle—as old and as true as the sky; And the wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the wolf that shall break it must die.
As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk, the Law runneth forward and back; For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.
Re: Women In Combat [Re: Lilo] #649586
06/02/12 01:34 PM
06/02/12 01:34 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
pizzaboy Offline
The Fuckin Doctor
pizzaboy  Offline
The Fuckin Doctor

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
Originally Posted By: Lilo
Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
For once, we agree on something.

Stranger things have happened... whistle

Not really lol.


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: Women In Combat [Re: Lilo] #654956
07/10/12 08:04 AM
07/10/12 08:04 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
Lilo Offline OP
Lilo  Offline OP

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
Marines Grueling Training Course will go co-ed
Quote:
...........(This reporter graduated from the course in 1988; on the first day, a lieutenant regarded by instructors and peers as one of the most fit students suffered a heart attack and died.) ...
Last week’s test began in a classroom after midnight. A captain addressed 96 students, each sitting beside a mock M-16A2 rifle (real rifles are not issued until after the first test) and a backpack loaded with food and equipment.
“Notebooks away,” the captain said. “No notes.”
From this moment on, the captain said, for an amount of time unknown to the students, they would be continuously evaluated. Students who failed would be assigned a noninfantry job.
...
No one was to help anyone else, the captain said. Speaking was forbidden, except when addressing instructors, with one exception. “If you are injured at any time, it is the only time you will talk to another Marine,” he said. “Legitimately injured,” he added, “As in, ‘I have a bone sticking out of my leg.’ ”...


"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives."
Winter is Coming

Now this is the Law of the Jungle—as old and as true as the sky; And the wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the wolf that shall break it must die.
As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk, the Law runneth forward and back; For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.
Re: Women In Combat [Re: Lilo] #654957
07/10/12 08:09 AM
07/10/12 08:09 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
Lilo Offline OP
Lilo  Offline OP

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
Female Marine Captain Disagrees with trend

Quote:
The Marine Corps Times recently published a handful of articles in regard to opening Infantry Officer Course (IOC) to females and the possibility of integrating women into the infantry community. In mid-April the Commandant directed the “integration” of the first wave of female officers into IOC this summer following completion of The Basic School (TBS). This action may or may not pave the way for female Marines to serve in the infantry as the results remain to be seen. However, before the Marine Corps moves forward with this concept, should we not ask the hard questions and gain opinions of combat-experienced Marines (male and female alike) as to the purpose, the impact, and the gains from such a move? As a combat-experienced Marine officer, and a female, I am here to tell you that we are not all created equal, and attempting to place females in the infantry will not improve the Marine Corps as the Nation’s force-in-readiness or improve our national security....


"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives."
Winter is Coming

Now this is the Law of the Jungle—as old and as true as the sky; And the wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the wolf that shall break it must die.
As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk, the Law runneth forward and back; For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.
Re: Women In Combat [Re: Lilo] #655023
07/10/12 07:27 PM
07/10/12 07:27 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
I
IvyLeague Offline
IvyLeague  Offline
I

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
Originally Posted By: Lilo
Female Marine Captain Disagrees with trend

Quote:
The Marine Corps Times recently published a handful of articles in regard to opening Infantry Officer Course (IOC) to females and the possibility of integrating women into the infantry community. In mid-April the Commandant directed the “integration” of the first wave of female officers into IOC this summer following completion of The Basic School (TBS). This action may or may not pave the way for female Marines to serve in the infantry as the results remain to be seen. However, before the Marine Corps moves forward with this concept, should we not ask the hard questions and gain opinions of combat-experienced Marines (male and female alike) as to the purpose, the impact, and the gains from such a move? As a combat-experienced Marine officer, and a female, I am here to tell you that we are not all created equal, and attempting to place females in the infantry will not improve the Marine Corps as the Nation’s force-in-readiness or improve our national security....


Shocking, especially from one in her position, that she could be so honest and simply go with reality rather than simply march along to the unrealistic, though politically correct, agenda here. Or maybe it is because of her experience that she is able to see the truth.


Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
Re: Women In Combat [Re: Lilo] #655131
07/11/12 10:09 PM
07/11/12 10:09 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 17,300
New York
Sicilian Babe Offline
Sicilian Babe  Offline

Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 17,300
New York
When I was in college, many moons ago, it was the midst of the Iranian hostage crisis. There was a great deal of talk about reinstating the draft, and that women would have to sign up. There was one creative young swain on campus who had the following TShirt made up: The front said, Girls! Avoid the Iran Draft! I Volunteer To Get You Pregnant!

And on the back, his phone number.


President Emeritus of the Neal Pulcawer Fan Club
Re: Women In Combat [Re: Lilo] #655150
07/12/12 07:08 AM
07/12/12 07:08 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
Lilo Offline OP
Lilo  Offline OP

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
That is a pretty nice pickup line.."Sleep with me, the life you save may be your own"!!!


"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives."
Winter is Coming

Now this is the Law of the Jungle—as old and as true as the sky; And the wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the wolf that shall break it must die.
As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk, the Law runneth forward and back; For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.
Re: Women In Combat [Re: Sicilian Babe] #655195
07/12/12 02:43 PM
07/12/12 02:43 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,089
Brooklyn, New York
Dapper_Don Offline
Underboss
Dapper_Don  Offline
Underboss
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,089
Brooklyn, New York
Originally Posted By: Sicilian Babe
When I was in college, many moons ago, it was the midst of the Iranian hostage crisis. There was a great deal of talk about reinstating the draft, and that women would have to sign up. There was one creative young swain on campus who had the following TShirt made up: The front said, Girls! Avoid the Iran Draft! I Volunteer To Get You Pregnant!

And on the back, his phone number.


funny story


Tommy Shots: They want me running the family, don't they know I have a young wife?
Sal Vitale: (laughs) Tommy, jump in, the water's fine.



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