Yes, as a character and the main protagonist of The Sopranos, Tony is utterly compelling, cool, awesome, etc. But from a Mafia standpoint, the guy was really probably the worst Mafia Boss ever depicted on the screen (big screen or small). He inherited from Jackie Aprile,Sr a large (for NJ standards) and prosperous family with six fully functional crews, a great partnership with NY, great rackets, etc.
Within 7 years: He almost started a war three times (Over Tony B., over Vito, over blowing up Phil's wireroom) Killed off the family's best earner (Ralphie) Mistreated and underpaid valuable soldiers to the point that they turned to other sources of income, which resulted in them getting nabbed by the Feds (Pussy, Carlo Gervasi, Eugene, possibly Ray Curto) Mishandled every respected and feared Family veteran who got out of prison to the point where they were insubordinate and ultimately had to be either put down or sent away (Richie Aprile, Feech, Tony B.) Allowed a drug addict to live and even reach the upper echelons of his Family, despite said drug addict threatening to kill him publicly and having a rat girlfriend (Chris). After Chris gives up Adriana, he's promoted to Capo. Tried to boss around New York even though he was just an NJ Don. Sparked a war with NY which resulted in the death of his Underboss and the mortal wounding of his longtime, wise Consigliere. Protected Tony B., even to the point where his own soldiers were considering mutiny, out of sentimentality, despite knowing that Tony B. had to die. And not letting Phil handle the murder. Protected Vito, even to the point where it nearly started a war. Alienated Hesh, his second best advisor, most low key and intelligent guy and a well respected loan shark. Lost Barone Sanitation, his Family's main source of legit income.
Under Tony's regime, the Family Lost: Pussy (competent and longtime loyal soldier, resorted to selling H due to being underpaid and as such was caught and became a rat). Richie (alienated Richie to the point that Richie wanted him dead, ruled against Richie at every turn, lost an old school, tough, feared Capo) Feech (Due to paranoia, lost a totally old school, feared and RESPECTED Capo) Ralphie (The best earner the Family ever had) Bobby Bacala Sr (Wasted a great, albeit sickly hitman, on a hit that could've been done by anyone else) Gigi Cestone (Had he not been made Capo, he wouldn't have died from stress) Silvio (Had Tony not pushed NY to war, Silvio would still be walking)
Yes, Vito and Michael Corleone made mistakes, but they never ran their families into the ground. Paul Castellano was killed, but he died with the Gambino Crime Family as the most powerful in the country. The only other Bosses I can think of who were as bad as Tony are John Gotti and Al Capone.
I mean, even compared to the other Bosses on The Sopranos (Carmine, Sr, who served as Boss for over 30 years and died of natural causes; Jackie, who was loved, respected and served for four years before dying of natural causes; Johnny Sack, who was feared and died of natural cause), Tony sucked as a Don.
I loved the sopranos but hated Tony. He wasn't a good boss, I mean he made decisions on what/who he liked.
All due respect, you got no fuckin' idea what it's like to be Number One. Every decision you make affects every facet of every other fuckin' thing. It's too much to deal with almost. And in the end you're completely alone with it all.
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I loved the sopranos but hated Tony. He wasn't a good boss, I mean he made decisions on what/who he liked.
All due respect, you got no fuckin' idea what it's like to be Number One. Every decision you make affects every facet of every other fuckin' thing. It's too much to deal with almost. And in the end you're completely alone with it all.
Well that wasn't respectful Ivy lol. First of all as an italian american im pretty proud that i dont have any family in the mafia since I dont respect who care if they are Number one. However when it comes to the Sopranos i just gave my opinion from watching the show that he wasn't a great boss. You have your own opinion which is fine just try and calm down next time lol
Well that wasn't respectful Ivy lol. First of all as an italian american im pretty proud that i dont have any family in the mafia since I dont respect who care if they are Number one. However when it comes to the Sopranos i just gave my opinion from watching the show that he wasn't a great boss. You have your own opinion which is fine just try and calm down next time lol
That was a quote from The Sopranos. Tony to Silvio when they were talking about being boss.
Well that wasn't respectful Ivy lol. First of all as an italian american im pretty proud that i dont have any family in the mafia since I dont respect who care if they are Number one. However when it comes to the Sopranos i just gave my opinion from watching the show that he wasn't a great boss. You have your own opinion which is fine just try and calm down next time lol
That was a quote from The Sopranos. Tony to Silvio when they were talking about being boss.
yes he was a terrible boss. one only thing might earn him that title which was killing the highest earning capo in the family for no good reason and then enticing most of the family's force into the apparent "revenge".
"I'm just a humble motherfucker with a big ass dick" The Bunk
What he did to Feech was fucked up. The man did his time, kept his mouth shut only to be sent back to prison by a paranoid boss for no good reason. If ever there was a reason to turn informant....
Sad thing was, there probably wasn't much Feech could give the Feds.
I wouldnt go as far as saying he was the worst boss ever. Like ivy said and i agree with him 100% nobody here has any idea what it takes to be number one, with all the descisons and stress. You also have to understand he was living two lives with his personal family life which had alot of problems and his mob family. taking into consideration a true mob boss would say fuck his personal family and devote himself to the mob but realistically its not easy to do
I think Tony, unlike other people like with Silvio, paulie, Pussy, etc.., has always had esplanade the way, he certainly, with Silvio and others have done the robbery of the gambling den Feech , and Tony has killed that man Willy Overall, but his father and uncle were the real leaders of the family, and not the old ercole DeMeo. Then in 1986 he became the youngest capo in the the family history is 27 years old if I dont'mistake As a boss, I would compare him to Nicky Scarfo. For various reasons: he gave the order to kill the twin brother of Patsy Parisi, for the story that he was about to kill his mother (and it was true), he killed, Ralph Cifaretto, just because he did die, the horse, in a fire to collect insurance money to pay the money for the rehabilitation of his son Justin; Pussy had already cooperated with the feds, before Tony became boss, but he has not even considered in order to become Capo Feech Lamanna and Tony Blundetto, had long condann ee did not speak, but Tony not even consider the idea of appointing Feech as a Capo, and to introduce Tony B. as a made man; Tony has promoted and protected his nephew Christopher, although he was a hopeless drug addict , and his girlfriend Adriana was a rat; did arrive men from Naples, but he never had the idea to create a Neapolitan Faction (and maybe order the dead of Furio Gionta), the most violent and perhaps most faithful of american made man; had inherited a great relationship with the two largest families of New York (the Teresas and Lupertazzis), ruined them down and have a war with one of the two. Tony is dead to me, and ruined in 7 years, a small but profitable family.For the fact that the power and responsibility of being Boss, is never easy, but damage in such a short time a crime family, ignoring the old school gangsters, or the most profitable, is from idiots, I was Tony I'd at least tried to expand at least the family affairs.
Feech was a threat to the throne at that point, as was Richie. He woulda either flipped or tried to kill for the top spot. If Janice didn't kill Richie, I'm sure Tony would have over him beating on his sister. Tony B. went cowboy before he had the chance to get straightened out. Tony didn't break a rule in killing his cousin first. A handover usually don't happen, but Phil present is about as much as you could expect. I think Ralph just did one more thing to make it easier for Tony to go ahead and take him out. He was living on borrowed time. He woulda got himself killed sooner or later. As Junior said, you steer the ship the best way you can. Tony was a young boss but was quite capable of doing the job, despite being younger when he took over a crew.
KC i agree, i also think having the guys in tonys family that he had were very hard to work with . they werent easy guys to deal with. Alot of people in the family envied Tony
Feech was a threat to the throne at that point, as was Richie. He woulda either flipped or tried to kill for the top spot. If Janice didn't kill Richie, I'm sure Tony would have over him beating on his sister. Tony B. went cowboy before he had the chance to get straightened out. Tony didn't break a rule in killing his cousin first. A handover usually don't happen, but Phil present is about as much as you could expect. I think Ralph just did one more thing to make it easier for Tony to go ahead and take him out. He was living on borrowed time. He woulda got himself killed sooner or later. As Junior said, you steer the ship the best way you can. Tony was a young boss but was quite capable of doing the job, despite being younger when he took over a crew.
Richie would never flip. I mean you may not like him but he was a stone cold gangster from the old school as was feech. Tony's problem was that he had jealousy problems amongst other things. Feech was respected by many up and comers kind of like neil Dellacroce was because they were no nonsense gangster. Tony wasn't a horrible boss but he wasnt a great boss either
One of the things that really disappointed me toward the end was that they never followed up with the mutiny idea. In real life I think even Silvo would've gotten tired of Tony's shit eventually. And being killed by his own friends would've been a pretty realistic (and logical) end for someone like Tony. For a show that made a big deal about portraying these guys as they actually are, they dropped the ball letting Tony get away with his many fuck ups. Shit, the guy even curb-stomped a made man in New York and got away with it. That's realistic?? Imagine some NJ mobster doing that to one of Gotti or Gigante's men. He would've been fertilizer the same day.
As well all know, Tony suffered from panic attacks/depression etc. And almost all of his decisions stem from allowing his judgement to be swayed by paranoia, ego and sentimentality. He wasn't stupid in any way, quite the opposite. He was able to think 2/3 steps ahead on countless occasions. But in my opinion, even when the panic attacks subsided, there remained a mental flaw that meant he wasn't ever really cut out for the top job.
Tony was really the only person for the job. The one time Sil took over, it drove him to the hospital. Everyone else lacked the mental prowess to lead. Can you imagine Paulie as top dog? Or Pussy? I know Richie might seem like the obvious choice, but let's not forget the man was a sociopath. Eventually that might lead to some serious issues. Internal issues (a coup) or external (NY vs NJ).
"strange things happen all the time, and so it goes and so it goes. and the book says, 'we may be through with the past, but the past is not through with us'" - MAGNOLIA
Tony was really the only person for the job. The one time Sil took over, it drove him to the hospital. Everyone else lacked the mental prowess to lead. Can you imagine Paulie as top dog? Or Pussy? I know Richie might seem like the obvious choice, but let's not forget the man was a sociopath. Eventually that might lead to some serious issues. Internal issues (a coup) or external (NY vs NJ).
Pussy, barring him being an informant, would've made a capable Boss. Paulie of course not.
Richie wouldn't have lasted five minutes as a Boss; he was barely respected even as a Capo after he got out of the can, because of his temper and lack of respect for the current status quo. He was also too old fashioned, too stuck in the old ways, to last long. He wouldn't have the intelliigence to think up complex schemes like the HMO scheme Tony thinks up, or to turn the Esplanade into a gold mine. He'd have stuck to the old things--Sanitation, drugs, extortion, trucking, etc. In the 70s, 80s, he probably made a great Capo; prison probably messed with his head, along with the fact that due to being in jail he was in essence "passed over" for Boss first by his kid brother and then by Tony. Richie'd either have been killed or would've been picked up by the Feds quickly.
Guys on the show I can see being a good Boss are: Patsy Parisi (low key, cold, calculating, smart, got balls) Larry Boy (If not under house arrest, seems pretty smart) Feech (hot tempered but also very traditional, greatly feared and respected, smart) Vito (if it never came out that he was gay; he was a very decisive, calculating, highly intelligent guy, savvy, cold blooded when need be, and an amazing earner, who also had a close tie by marriage to New York. Phil seemed to have regard for him before he was outed.) Albert Barese (Yes he repeats himself but he also showed himself to be smart at times. He was the only one who figured out that Tony killed Ralphie over the horse) Ralphie (If he wasn't coked up and psychotic. The guy had brains, balls, savvy, the best earner the family ever had, he just needed more self control) Gigi (Level headed sort of guy) Tony B. (If the hijack had gone the other way, he probably would've been Boss. He was smarter than Tony S., less of a boorish asshole but also still very street smart and respected before the Leotardo incident, he was considered a "rising star" before he went away)
He was treated like a gopher (for example going all around looking for Tony's son's teacher's stolen car) and left out of a lot of the big scores even before there was any suspicion of him being a rat. If he was being treated well enough he wouldn't have had to dabble into selling drugs to afford his kid's college tuition.
If Tony could get Junior to be happy as consigliere, I think things would have went a lot different. Thing is, Junior was too jealous and greedy for the boss spot.
Long as I remember The rain been coming down. Clouds of Mystery pouring Confusion on the ground. Good men through the ages, Trying to find the sun; And I wonder, Still I wonder, Who'll stop the rain.
If Tony could get Junior to be happy as consigliere, I think things would have went a lot different. Thing is, Junior was too jealous and greedy for the boss spot.
The irony is, their official titles aside, Junior pretty much did end up being Tony's consigliere.
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My dream ending for the Sopranos (and Tony's) would have been this:
- Tony B. was never recognized for the Leotardo hit, pushing Phil to believe that someone from the past power struggle carried it...leading the Lupertazzis into a new wave of internal instability.
- Not being chased by NYC, Tony B. continued to climb the ranks of the family...got made...and started to take advantage of NJ own issues (Vito, etc..) to raise as captain of Vito's former crew.
- Eventually...frustration with Tony's behavior (not protecting Vito enough from NY, or whatever other reason Chase's writers could have come up with) made some NJ guys looking at Tony B. as an interesting option as a leader.
- Blablabla, don't know how, but then we'll have a good old power struggle between the Soprano-faction and the Blundetto-faction.
This would have been more interesting due to the troubled relationship between Tony Uncle John and Tony Uncle Al (Tony B. being someone who could easily challenge Tony's emotions...ala Raplhie or Richie) and an even more realistic conclusion...as we've said many times the NJ-vs-NY-thing was laughable.
If that would have happened...I would have cheered for Tony B...no questions asked.
LuanKuci, that's a great scenario- would have loved to see that. I was always sorry that they killed Tony B off so fast.
Un giorno, e non arrivi mai quel giorno, ti chiederò di ricambiarmi il servizio, fino ad allora consideralo un regalo per le nozze di mia figlia. (Don Corleone)
Once you're into this family, there's no getting out.
NY vs NY was great. NY vs NJ, laughable. Correct. I like to pretend we're dealing with the 90's here and not the new millennium, it helps a bit. Anyways. Good call on Tony B. He was more of a plot device than an actual character. I was really looking forward to his character when I learned Steve Buscemi got the part. For the most part they used him as a tool to display Tony's 'authority problem', and to make for better Melfi scenes. He never really got to do anything in the DiMeo family.
Yeah I enjoyed the power instability in NYC, I think that it was realistic and shown to many people how most mob wars happen within families.
That's why I lost interest in the final arch. It was too unrealistic, even for the show's universe. For 7 season we were reminded (most of the times by Tony himself) how the Lupertazzis were larger ("they have like 100 soldiers over there...") and more powerful. Yet, these Jersey Boys were able to engage in a war with them.
I mean: the entire DiMeo family fit a normal-sized safe house...with Buddha Greco counting for 2 of course.
Yeah I enjoyed the power instability in NYC, I think that it was realistic and shown to many people how most mob wars happen within families.
That's why I lost interest in the final arch. It was too unrealistic, even for the show's universe. For 7 season we were reminded (most of the times by Tony himself) how the Lupertazzis were larger ("they have like 100 soldiers over there...") and more powerful. Yet, these Jersey Boys were able to engage in a war with them.
I mean: the entire DiMeo family fit a normal-sized safe house...with Buddha Greco counting for 2 of course.
When Buddha Greco kept popping up, I was thinking, who the hell is that guy?
By that point they were just pulling new characters out of their ass instead of bringing back guys like Larry Barese or putting more development in to Agent Harris. One problem with the Sopranos is often times they refused to work with the established characters. Hell, why not bring Beansie in from Florida? Maybe it's just me. Walden was a good last minute addition but I would have liked to see more character development for guys like Patsy that we were already familiar with. In the last episode Tony mentions Patsy but he's not even on screen, while 5 minutes of screentime is given to Bobby's second in command, who we've never even heard of. Last season had so many flaws. Even in the NY side, we needed more time with Butchie and Albie to feel invested when they make the series pivotal scene happen.
