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What was it that Frankie Pentangeli did that was wrong? *DELETED* #40909
10/05/06 10:43 AM
10/05/06 10:43 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 68
long beach, ny
I
I'M GERMAN-IRISH Offline OP
*DELETED*
I'M GERMAN-IRISH  Offline OP
I
*DELETED*
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 68
long beach, ny
Post deleted by I'M GERMAN-IRISH

Re: What was it that Frankie Pentangeli did that was wrong? #40910
10/05/06 11:23 AM
10/05/06 11:23 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline
Consigliere to the Stars
dontomasso  Offline
Consigliere to the Stars

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
Willie Cicci admitted he was a "button" but he could not connect Michael Corleone to any wrongdoing..."the family had a lot of buffas." Pentangeli had given the FBI information that Michael Corleone had ordered the murders of people, and that he basically pulled all the stings to make the operation finction.

What the comittee did was set a perjury trap for Michael. After Cicci could not link him to any wrongdoing, Michael made a statement that he was not the head of a crime family, and he challenged the committee to produce anyone who could say otherwise. Teh chairman responded by saying that they would do just that, and thats when Tom and Michael figured out they had Pentangeli alive and that he had ratted Michael out (this is because he believed Michael tried to assassinate him).

So what Michael does is bring Pentangeli's brother to the hearing (the explanation of this is well documented in other threads) and this causes Pentangeli to recant his previous testimony, and say that all he knew is that he and Michael's father were in the olive oil business many years ago.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: What was it that Frankie Pentangeli did that was wrong? #40911
10/05/06 03:11 PM
10/05/06 03:11 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,518
AZ
Turnbull Online content
Turnbull  Online Content

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,518
AZ
If I infer correctly, you're wondering why Michael didn't give Frankie a pass because a) he was duped by Roth; and b) he recanted when his brother showed up. I think the answer is twofold:

1. As a matter of principle and discipline, Michael never, ever gave an enemy--or even someone who intended to hurt him but didn't--a pass. That's why Carlo and Fredo died, too. The "discipline" was that no one could ever get away with harming or intending to harm Michael or his family and live.
2. As a practical matter, someone who harmed or intended harm and repented was still a potential threat, even if forgiven. Puzo handled this excellently in the novel. He noted (when Tom called Bonasera to help with the dead Sonny) that "gratitude is the shortest-lived of feelings."
SPOILER:
After the Great Massacre of 1955, Kay leaves Michael and takes the kids to New Hampshire. Michael sends Tom to convince her to come back. She asks why Carlo and Tessio couldn't be forgiven. Tom replies (in better words than I can remember now) that, forgiveness or not, gratitude or not, they would be a potential threat to the entire family for as long as they lived. Frankie knew enough about Michael to hurt him. His recantation of his statement wrecked his credibility. But down the road, had he lived, the government could have used him to acquire more and more info on Michael and his operation that could have been used against him.
As for Cicci: as dt said, Cicci testified that he never got a direct order from Michael. His rat-out didn't directly harm Michael. But we didn't see or hear of Cicci after that. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Michael went after him too, on general principles.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: What was it that Frankie Pentangeli did that was wrong? #40912
10/05/06 03:50 PM
10/05/06 03:50 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28
St. Louis
Ace_Reutzel_dup1 Offline
Wiseguy
Ace_Reutzel_dup1  Offline
Wiseguy
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28
St. Louis
Did Frankie ever realize Michael didn't betray him?
I never picked up on whether he did or not.


There are things that have to be done and you do them and you never talk about them. You don`t try to justify them, they can`t be justified. You just do them. Then you forget it.
Re: What was it that Frankie Pentangeli did that was wrong? #40913
10/05/06 05:57 PM
10/05/06 05:57 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,020
Texas
O
olivant Offline
olivant  Offline
O

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,020
Texas
My understanding is that Mike didn't like the way Frankie had redecorated Vito's house.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: What was it that Frankie Pentangeli did that was wrong? #40914
10/05/06 06:20 PM
10/05/06 06:20 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
AppleOnYa Offline
AppleOnYa  Offline

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
Quote
Originally posted by I'M GERMAN-IRISH:
... Couldn't Michael see that he was simply a pawn in Hyman Roth's plot and let him have a pass like Willi Cicci?
I'm sure that Michael DID see and understand what happened to Frankie. As Tom said, 'Roth...he played this one beautifully.' In a way, Michael handed Frankie to Roth in the same way Vito handed Luca to Solozzo & the Tattaglia's.

Still though, whatever the reason Frankie turned rat and once released from FBI witness protection (for recanting his sworn affidavit)...there was no way he could again work withing the Family; no way his act could go unpunished. Frankie's life as he knew it was in effect over the moment the police picked him up 'half dead' at that bar. It was either prison or an empty life in an army barracks.

As for Michael...if he didn't give his own brother a 'pass', then why on earth would he consider giving one to Frank Pentangelli???

Also...what makes you think Cicci got a pass?

Apple


A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.

- THOMAS JEFFERSON

Re: What was it that Frankie Pentangeli did that was wrong? #40915
10/05/06 08:31 PM
10/05/06 08:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,474
I
Ice Offline
Underboss
Ice  Offline
I
Underboss
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,474
Quote
Originally posted by AppleOnYa:


Still though, whatever the reason Frankie turned rat
Apple [/QB]
if 'who opened the drapes' is the million dollar question, then this one is worth atleast a half mil.



Re: What was it that Frankie Pentangeli did that was wrong? #40916
10/05/06 08:44 PM
10/05/06 08:44 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
AppleOnYa Offline
AppleOnYa  Offline

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
Quote
Originally posted by Ice:
[QUOTE]...if the "micheal corleone says hello line" was not in the script, why in the world would he presume mike had something to do with the hit?
Exactly.

Except the insertion of that line gives the indication that the hit on Frankie was supposed to fail, that Frankie was supposed think Michael 'double-crossed' him, that Frankie was supposed to get picked up by the police, and that everything else would just fall into place.

I don't think it was supposed to fail. I think Roth & the Rosato Bros. wanted Frankie dead.

Therefore, why the need for a hitman to tell Frankie that Michael says hello?

Therefore, the line is a flaw, a hole in the script.

Apple


A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.

- THOMAS JEFFERSON

Re: What was it that Frankie Pentangeli did that was wrong? #40917
10/05/06 08:48 PM
10/05/06 08:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,474
I
Ice Offline
Underboss
Ice  Offline
I
Underboss
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,474
Quote
Originally posted by AppleOnYa:


Therefore, the line is a flaw, a hole in the script.

Apple [/QB]
'ffc....he played this one beautifully.'




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