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May 27th, 2012
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Re: Mafia's Future [Re: EVL] #641931
03/28/12 03:29 AM
03/28/12 03:29 AM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 659
Newcastle Upon Tyne
short841 Offline
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doesnt the italian and sicilian mafia control 80% of the narcotic trade in europe?


"You shouldn’t be embarrassed by your wealth. This contempt for money is another trick by the rich to keep the poor without it" - Michael Corleone

"You don't have to count the dead to understand the business of the Camorra" Gomorrah, Roberto Saviano
Re: Mafia's Future [Re: Sonny_Black] #641938
03/28/12 04:47 AM
03/28/12 04:47 AM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 357
Amsterdam
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Chopper2012 Offline
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Amsterdam
Originally Posted By: Sonny_Black
Originally Posted By: Chopper2012
This guy was actually a feared hitman over here in Amsterdam, called Martin Hoogland, but even he enjoyed going out for some cycling lol . And then wound up being shotgunned to dead.


He was an ex cop turned hitman for the Serbs, Jotsa Jocic in particular, and he had murdered Dutch godfather Klaas Bruinsma. He had it coming.


That he did. As a cop, he actually did undercover work, associating with Serbs etc. Problem was, he enjoyed it a bit too much and was fired, going full criminal after that.

Re: Mafia's Future [Re: short841] #641940
03/28/12 05:07 AM
03/28/12 05:07 AM
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Amsterdam
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Chopper2012 Offline
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Originally Posted By: short841
doesnt the italian and sicilian mafia control 80% of the narcotic trade in europe?


I've heard that number before. Although they are very big into cocaine, especially the 'Ndrangheta, 80% seems very high, given the fact that there are other criminal syndicates in Europe too.

Here's an article (in English) about the 'Ndrangheta from the Spiegel, one of Germany's biggest newspapers. I think it was posted here before, but can't find it right now. If so, sorry for the rerun.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,806233,00.html

Last edited by Chopper2012; 03/28/12 05:50 AM.
Re: Mafia's Future [Re: EVL] #641972
03/28/12 01:09 PM
03/28/12 01:09 PM
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Posts: 659
Newcastle Upon Tyne
short841 Offline
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maybe 80% if importing it not the selling maybe


"You shouldn’t be embarrassed by your wealth. This contempt for money is another trick by the rich to keep the poor without it" - Michael Corleone

"You don't have to count the dead to understand the business of the Camorra" Gomorrah, Roberto Saviano
Re: Mafia's Future [Re: EVL] #642017
03/28/12 07:12 PM
03/28/12 07:12 PM
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m2w Offline
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i think 80% is too high, they are sure the biggest european importer of cocaine since they have very links with colombians, but this estimates seem too high; they own routes in gioia tauro and other italian ports and hundreds camorra members in Spain that is colonized by napolitans; same for estimates that claim albanians import 80% of heroin that left only 20 for turks and others i dont know why this 80% come from

Re: Mafia's Future [Re: EVL] #642019
03/28/12 07:17 PM
03/28/12 07:17 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
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IvyLeague Offline
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The 80% figure, which is about 5 years old now, originated with Italian law enforcement officials.


Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
Re: Mafia's Future [Re: IvyLeague] #642033
03/28/12 09:56 PM
03/28/12 09:56 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 48
New York City
E
EVL Offline OP
Wiseguy
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Thanks, and thanks to all of you for the positive comments. My traffic on a daily basis has DOUBLED in the past week and think this BB is partly the reason. So, thanks for your support.

Now Ivy League, you know your stuff! I had a question maybe you could answer -- does the 1,500 or 1,000 include associates? As we all probably know, each soldier has his own crew of associates ranging from - maybe 5 to 10? The number would be significantly higher. Then you have the crooked businessmen who share or pay mob bosses, some law enforcement-types on the payroll, etc. I think that number is strictly limited to made men, so perhaps you could times that number by 10! Look at all the press coverage the Mafia gets -- and not just in New York. Read any newspaper in any city, chances are, you'll find a mob story somewhere...

I haven't looked into this thread too deeply yet, so sorry if I repeated something someone else may have said.

Re: Mafia's Future [Re: EVL] #642035
03/28/12 10:23 PM
03/28/12 10:23 PM
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m2w Offline
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Quote:
does the 1,500 or 1,000 include associates?


no they are only made members they are 10.000 with associates

Re: Mafia's Future [Re: m2w] #642047
03/29/12 02:40 AM
03/29/12 02:40 AM
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IvyLeague Offline
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Originally Posted By: m2w
Quote:
does the 1,500 or 1,000 include associates?


no they are only made members they are 10.000 with associates


Yes, the roughly 1,000 are total "made" members in the U.S.

Because an associate can be defined in different ways, estimates are all over the place. The 10,000 figure coming from the assumed 10 associates for every member, which may not necessarily be the case anymore. Looking at the latest estimates for the NY families, 5 associates for ever member seems to be the ratio now. For Chicago, it's about 4 associates for every member. For New England and Philadelphia, it's about 2 associates for every member. And New Jersey has a ratio of about 1 associate for every member.


Last edited by IvyLeague; 03/29/12 02:42 AM.

Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
Re: Mafia's Future [Re: EVL] #642048
03/29/12 02:46 AM
03/29/12 02:46 AM
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Posts: 493
Texas
TonyG Offline
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Texas
Getting back to the original intent of this post, I think we all agree that the American LCN will likely never achieve the power and money it had up to the late 1970's and early 1980's.

I think the more relevant question about the future of the LCN is how will morph and adapt to evade law enforcement and what new rackets / money making schemes will be pursued.

One of the most obvious changes in the last 10-15 years is that most of the NY families have moved to a ruling panel instead of the traditional Boss, Consigliere and Underboss administration.

LCN has gotten more savvy with internet schemes and stock / securities fraud.

As long as there is money to be made, the glorification of OC in the media and movies, there will be people interested in the life. They will always continue to try to control unions, run bookmaking and loansharking, deal drugs, extort businesses, etc.

I am interested in hearing other projections on how the LCN will continue to change and adapt.


Best way to catch the smart ones? Get an idiot working for them.
Re: Mafia's Future [Re: TonyG] #642050
03/29/12 03:05 AM
03/29/12 03:05 AM
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IvyLeague Offline
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Originally Posted By: TonyG
Getting back to the original intent of this post, I think we all agree that the American LCN will likely never achieve the power and money it had up to the late 1970's and early 1980's.

I think the more relevant question about the future of the LCN is how will morph and adapt to evade law enforcement and what new rackets / money making schemes will be pursued.

One of the most obvious changes in the last 10-15 years is that most of the NY families have moved to a ruling panel instead of the traditional Boss, Consigliere and Underboss administration.

LCN has gotten more savvy with internet schemes and stock / securities fraud.

As long as there is money to be made, the glorification of OC in the media and movies, there will be people interested in the life. They will always continue to try to control unions, run bookmaking and loansharking, deal drugs, extort businesses, etc.

I am interested in hearing other projections on how the LCN will continue to change and adapt.


Interestingly, the Gambinos, Luccheses, and Colombos seem to have gone back to the more traditional three-man administration (boss, underboss, consigliere). Of course, that can change quickly with one indictment. With so much change at the top, I do think acting bosses and ruling panels will be the rule more than the exception.

Gambling, loansharking, extortion, drug trafficking, labor/business racketeering, and robberies/fencing stolen goods are all still LCN staples. The one "growth" business for the LCN in the last 15 years or so has been various forms of fraud. Stock fraud cases have slowed down compared to the a decade ago but there's still be some in recent years. Other examples over that time have been health care fraud, real estate and mortgage fraud, telecommunications fraud, computer fraud, and ID and credit card fraud.


Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
Re: Mafia's Future [Re: EVL] #642052
03/29/12 03:34 AM
03/29/12 03:34 AM
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Newcastle Upon Tyne
short841 Offline
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slowed down mean not into it that much nowadays?


"You shouldn’t be embarrassed by your wealth. This contempt for money is another trick by the rich to keep the poor without it" - Michael Corleone

"You don't have to count the dead to understand the business of the Camorra" Gomorrah, Roberto Saviano
Re: Mafia's Future [Re: short841] #642053
03/29/12 03:47 AM
03/29/12 03:47 AM
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IvyLeague Offline
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Originally Posted By: short841
slowed down mean not into it that much nowadays?


The late 1990's and early 2000's was the main time for mob-related stock scams. But there have been a few since then, including 2 cases in 2005, 1 case in 2006, and 2 cases in 2010.


Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
Re: Mafia's Future [Re: EVL] #642135
03/30/12 02:35 AM
03/30/12 02:35 AM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 659
Newcastle Upon Tyne
short841 Offline
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Newcastle Upon Tyne
probs has slowed down but maybe its more difficult to prove and indict people on it?


"You shouldn’t be embarrassed by your wealth. This contempt for money is another trick by the rich to keep the poor without it" - Michael Corleone

"You don't have to count the dead to understand the business of the Camorra" Gomorrah, Roberto Saviano
Re: Mafia's Future [Re: short841] #642199
03/30/12 01:40 PM
03/30/12 01:40 PM
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IvyLeague Offline
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Originally Posted By: short841
probs has slowed down but maybe its more difficult to prove and indict people on it?


I'd guess because the feds and the SEC became wise to the "pump and dump" scams and started watching things more closely.


Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
Re: Mafia's Future [Re: EVL] #642201
03/30/12 02:26 PM
03/30/12 02:26 PM
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Newcastle Upon Tyne
short841 Offline
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Newcastle Upon Tyne
yh i agree. how does the health fraud work?


"You shouldn’t be embarrassed by your wealth. This contempt for money is another trick by the rich to keep the poor without it" - Michael Corleone

"You don't have to count the dead to understand the business of the Camorra" Gomorrah, Roberto Saviano
Re: Mafia's Future [Re: short841] #642210
03/30/12 04:01 PM
03/30/12 04:01 PM
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IvyLeague Offline
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Originally Posted By: short841
yh i agree. how does the health fraud work?


Check out this article about how a Genovese crew was involved. Some may remember this kind of scam being a part of the pilot episode of The Sopranos.

http://www.nytimes.com/1996/08/21/nyregi...=all&src=pm


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Re: Mafia's Future [Re: EVL] #642211
03/30/12 04:08 PM
03/30/12 04:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 659
Newcastle Upon Tyne
short841 Offline
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Newcastle Upon Tyne
Amd are the mob still involved with these fraud systems or like stock fraud not as much nowadays? And cheers for that! Really interesting!


"You shouldn’t be embarrassed by your wealth. This contempt for money is another trick by the rich to keep the poor without it" - Michael Corleone

"You don't have to count the dead to understand the business of the Camorra" Gomorrah, Roberto Saviano
Re: Mafia's Future [Re: EVL] #642212
03/30/12 05:51 PM
03/30/12 05:51 PM
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IvyLeague Offline
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The Genovese family was involved in another case in the early 2000's and, around that same time, the Colombos were indirectly related by extorting protection money from Russian medical clinics. They were protecting them from being shaken down by the Russian mob.


Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
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