http://www.philly.com/philly/news/new_je..._Mob_trial.html

wow....this guy has some canoles

Either that or he's profoundly stupid.

Thats when you know this "thing" is not what it used to be, and will probably never be again.

How could it be, when in the US, you have Martha Stewart who is more stand up and willing to do more jail time than a wiseguy?

^^^ that might be the most insightful post i have read in years.

Big Ang from Mob Wives kid said about whether he wanted to be a wiseguy/join the mob, he said "that lifestyle is dead".

So now it's all making sense to you because he said that? I don't watch that show and have no idea who this kid is. I only know the obvious.

definitely right but Ligambi and for sure Borgesi should have never associated with Monacello. He always was more of a businessman than mobster , Borgesi should have just stuck with made guy and more than likely wouldve done the 10 years

Lol, not cause he said that. Was just pointing that out since it came to mind at the time.

Ive known LCN has been a dying lifestyle ever since I first started getting interested in it.

Crime doesn't pay that's it.

I think the whole mythology behind it is dieing out i.e the godfather, men of honour, respectability. But theres always gonna be gangster and criminals so it will live on but it wont have that aura around it that it used to meaning that you wont get as many wannabes and recruits. This wont happen for years yet though because you still have shows like mob wives on that glamorises it. i dont think you could do that with any other group of criminals, imagine RUSSIAN SEX TRAFFICKERS WIVES or BALTIMORE DRUG LORDS WIVES.

On the whole, that's been the case for the last 50 years now. But some people have failed to recognize where it already happened in certain areas, while also fail to recognize where it's happening much slower in others.

Ivy, dont remind me. You and I are quite familiar with the whole Detroit/Buffalo, etc crime family enthusiasts. They are relentless even with the lack of evidence thats for sure.

They're just laying low in Detroit, waiting to take over the whole country .

Detroit has been secretly heading and holding national commission meetings since Massino turned. All the other families answer to Detroit, it is just a matter of time before the FBI indicts them...

True that Ivy people trying to say Colombos aren't a family or that detroit is more viable than them is ridiculous. Also the mob not being what it used to be through a mobster's eyes happens every generation, the guys made in the 20s and 30s thought that guys in the 40s and 50s were wild and disrespectful now the guys made in the 70s and 80s think the same about the guys today

Buffalo's as dead as Dillinger. Detroit's a huge whirlpool of interest for me. I've seen some detailed charts on this forum, only a few dozen members, but recent cases none the less. 2006 and '09, right? The last real mob murder was in '01/'02, right Ivy? That guy hit in his Corvette goin' to the gym. That video with Scott Burnstein and the retired FBI agents made it seem like there's still a LCN presence in the D. Though even at that borgata's peak they were no way near as strong or as capable as Chicago or New York; I mean I don't think the family even really had union influence, did they?
One thing about Buffalo is didn't they have crews across the border, Hamilton and Toronto? I'd assume over time those crews became independent. Now I'd like to add that in no way are those crews viable families, though there still may be an organization of small-time crooks.



"Hey, you take it easy on them livin' in the Big D, 'dem people be livin' in Mad Max times"
--- Bartender Moe from The Simpsons

hey, you forgot to use the word "underground".

That's basically my point. On one hand, I get into debates with people who talk as if the Colombos - one of the 5 NY families for crying out loud - will be gone by the end of the year. On the other hand, I've got other people insisting to me that Detroit is still going strong under the radar with 60 made guys. I'm left wondering what exactly these people are looking at.

But the worst has always been the Chicago guys. And that's probably because there was a time when the Outfit rivaled some of the NY families. And that image of the Chicago mob still persists in many people's minds, no matter how little evidence there is to support it. Now, Chicago is basically the only viable family left outside the northeast (and that's saying something) but people - especially posters from Chicago - continue to insist on the Outfit having this monolithic presence in Chicago, will almost all crime and corruption revolve around it. When, in reality, the Outfit is simply one entity that revolves around the long-standing corruption in Chicago, and has it's own niche in certain criminal areas. Far from rivaling any of the NY families today, it's much closer to New England or Philadelphia.

Well, the Detroit charts, which tend to come from mcscott, have ranged anywhere from 40 to 60 members over the past 5 or 6 years. In fact, if you take those charts at face value, Detroit is the only family still growing in size. But mscott's admitted that he isn't 100% sure everybody on that chart is made. And he's listed people in the past who are obviously not, since they're not even Italian. I like mcscott, he does provide a lot of good info on Detroit, and I own both his books. But, like many authors, I do think he tends to embellish his subject matter. According to Detroit Mob Confidential, they're America's "most successful Mafia family?" C'mon.

I've said many times before that the feds said the family had 30 members at most back in the mid 1990's. And even if we were to assume that they missed some guys, and that others have been made since then, there's just no way the Detroit family has 40, 50, or 60 made guys today.

Detroit did have union influence way back in the day, Hoffa and the Teamsters to name one example, but nothing in recent years or even semi-recent. 2006 was the last significant case involving the Detroit family. But we're talking by their standards. Before that, the last real significant case was a decade before in 1996. I'd bet we'll never see a case in Detroit like the 1996 one again. The 2009 case was over sports fixing involving some bookies who had some connections to the Detroit mob. And then there were the D'Anna's who assaulted the rival restaurant owner last year.

I'd probably put Buffalo right behind Detroit as far as families on the other side of where I draw the "viable/non-viable" line. But like Detroit, you also have to go back to the mid-1990's for the last really significant case involving that family. That being when Laborers Local 210 was put under federal oversight. Since then, there have been a few cases involving individual guys here and there, but nothing that shows a formally structured, cohesive family. In the past the family did have a crew in Hamilton and a few members in Toronto.

What/when was the last mob related case out of Buffalo?

Only mob-esque activity I see near Buffalo (I have been in the area the past few years) is those Waste Management trucks that say Cassella, and I HIGHLY doubt they are mob related. Still, everytime I see one of them I think of the mob lol.

I saw Joe Todaro Jr at the original La Nova pizzeria not too long ago when I visited a friend in Buffalo.

This is what I have for Buffalo from 2000 forward. One thing, I'm not 100% sure of the mob connection in the first case listed (the shoplifting one). There were a lot of Italians involved, it is Buffalo, and I've seen some of those names in the case also listed in Buffalo family charts.


In February 2000, 25 people, including Buffalo LCN members, Pasquale "Paddy" Brindisi, Phillip "Phil" Corelli, James "Jimmy" Feliciano, and Frank Ferraro were indicted in Utica, NY on charges of enterprise corruption, conspiracy, grand larceny, and possession of stolen property involving a $35 million shoplifting ring that included items such as videos, razor blades, batteries, radios, CD players, calculators, medications, video games, cameras, etc. from localo stores such as Wal-Mart, K-Mart, CVS, Sears, JC Penney, Staples, Office Max, etc.

In June 2000, Rochester LCN-faction member Thomas Marotta was indicted in the Western District of New York on charges of conspiracy, cocaine trafficking in Rochester and New York City, laundering $200,000 to $350,000 in gambling and drug profits,transporting 6 stolen vehicles from Rochester to Cleveland, and trafficking in $120,000 to $200,000 in stolen food stamps.

In September 2001, Buffalo LCN member Frank "Butchie BiFocals" BiFulco was indicted in Buffalo on charges of fraud, conspiracy and arson for having an associate's car torched in an insurance scam.

In September 2002, Buffalo LCN member Sonny Nicoletti Jr. and an associate were indicted in Niagara Falls, NY on charges of racketeering, running a sports betting peration that used a wireroom in the Dominican Republic , conspiracy to commit robbery, weapons possession, and extortion.

In June 2005, Rochester LCN-faction members Dominic "Sonny" Celestino and Frank Frassetto were indicted in the Western District of New York on charges of conspiracy to steal $90 million from a financial institution in New York and wire the money to a bank in Miami.

In January 2006, LIUNA Local 210 in Buffalo, which had past ties to the Buffalo LCN, was declared free of control of organized crime after it had been put under federal trusteeship in 1996.

In June 2006, 11 people, including Buffalo LCN associate Leonard Mordino, were indicted in Buffalo on charges cocaine trafficking.

From Wiki - This was under the "Current Status" section, take it with a grain of salt...

The Buffalo crime family's base of power has been the City of Buffalo, New York for the last century, but the group has also had criminal interests and satellite groups, or "crews", in other areas, such as Rochester and Utica in upstate New York; eastern Pennsylvania; Youngstown, Ohio; and the southern Ontario cities of Niagara Falls, Hamilton and Toronto. The Buffalo crime family remains active to this day, but law enforcement and the media have estimated the crime family's current underworld presence at anywhere from one of the most powerful crime families in La Cosa Nostra to being on the verge of extinction. The family also had significant power in Niagara Falls, New York and was associated with the corrupt leadership of the Laborers Local 91 laborers' union.

The Buffalo crime family has continued to be active in the Western and upstate New York areas, along with the Southern Ontario area, affiliated and active crews operate in several Buffalo areas such as the North, East and West Sides and in some suburban locations such as Niagara Falls, Cheektowaga and Amherst along with Utica, New York and Niagara Falls, Hamilton and Toronto, Ontario. No longer does it have a seat on the Mafia's National Commission as the New York Mafia and its 5 Crime Families have been in disarray for the last 10–15 years. The Buffalo crime family's membership is down with an estimated 40 made members and roughly 800-1000 associates and they no longer control extremely large criminal operations such as large scale gambling, extortion or protection, burglary rings, hijacking and narcotics.

Since the 1990s it has been predicted by local law enforcement, the media and crime writers who keep a close watch on the Western New York underworld that Joseph Todaro, Jr. was the most likely successor to his father as the next Buffalo crime family Boss being that he has been Acting Boss since roughly 1995, but as recently as late 2006 there has been a rumor circulating that the Todaros, Joseph Todaro, Sr. and Joseph Todaro Jr. have officially retired from active participation in Buffalo crime family activities and affairs and have officially elevated Consigliere, Leonard Falzone and Capo, Benjamin "Sonny" Nicolletti Jr. to the positions of Boss and Underboss. In other words, the Buffalo crime family may no longer be called the Todaro crime family as the "Todaro Era" has possibly ended, but this as of yet has not been verified by local or national law enforcement, agencies such as the Buffalo P.D., the FBI or the DEA so it cannot be considered official, but the "Falzone Era" has begun.

Just saw this too, damm 40 made guys and around 800-1000 associates. That family can almost rival one of the smaller NY families.

what a load of crap

thanks

THe buffalo and detroit families kinda just faded away as viable families because they had little union presence and thats all gone now and they missed out on the millions in the drug trade, whats left of these families is just gambling and some loansharking and extortion

The Buffalo and Detroit families are the next step down where New England, New Jersey, and Philadelphia are headed. I think, more than anything else, is that it came down to Buffalo and Detroit not having the numbers to withstand the general attrition. But, on the flip side, they obviously had more than, say, places like St. Louis or Los Angeles.

What happened with Buffalo and Detroit is you have a situation in which all the bosses and most of the members were older and rich, and therefore don't really have much of an incentive to commit crimes. So they both have about 20 made guys left, but they aren't doing much of anything.

IMHO, this same process is affecting the Chicago Outfit at the moment. The membership is getting too old and too rich to have any reason to actively engage in high-risk crimes. They aren't as far gone as Detroit and Buffalo, but they are fading like that.

I think that New England and Philadelphia are being more eroded by law enforcement pressure than they are by the "old rich guys fading away into retirement" phenomenon that took out Detroit and Buffalo, and (again, just my opinion) is currently killing off the Chicago Outfit. Especially Philly, which seems to have an unlimited supply of young Italian-American guys willing to fill up the ranks (New England is being affected by the aging thing a bit).

You make a good point, Ivan. If you're the Todaros in Buffalo, or the DiFronzos in Chicago, or the Toccos in Detroit, you're already multi-millionaires. How hard are they really going to try to keep making new members when, not only is there less of a pool to recruit from, but what pool there is younger guys who grew up in the suburbs watching Goodfellas and The Sopranos? Again, it's a problem of both quantity and quality.

I also agree that New England and Philadelphia have a larger pool to recruit from, by comparison, though I wouldn't call it "unlimited." It seems that the Patriarca, DeCavalcante, and Bruno families are all under 50 made guys now.

About every couple years I compile numbers for the families and recently I came up with about 40 for decavalcantes, 40-45 for patriarcas, 40- 50 for philly although I just say 50 because with guys dying and also I'm sure they've made people in the last for 4 or 5 years