Thanks, but in all honesty I think it is just common sense. Sometimes you can show a person all the legitimate data/information you have and they still wont believe it. You also see this with many of our politicians.

Exactly. The FBI has decades of intelligence built up on the LCN. And those cases always make for good press. If there's something to go after in a given city, they likely will. Once the cases start petering off, especially over an extended period of time, that's a good sign the local family is fading out.

Or we can assume some are starting to wise up and say " hey these street gangs pose a bigger threat to the public than some old men taking bets so lets put the mafia on the back burner and go after the street gangs".

Or are you saying that every FBI member cares about mafia headlines more so than public safety? WHile I do not doubt some do, I find it a stretch to say they all do or even that a majority do.

You're only too happy to make those assumptions because it's what you want to believe.

The Detroit FBI has deemed old Italian guys taking bets to not be a low priority but the FBI offices in Boston, Philly, Chicago, New York, and New Jersey did't get the memo?

You can keep living in a fantasy world where the good guys always win, that's your prerogative.
I choose to remain neutral.
1 out of 5 is still a fairly high percentage. Your argument would hold water if there were 50 cities who behaved a certain way but when you speak of 5 cities and find it inconceivable that one would go in a different direction than the other 4 you lose credibility IMO.

I'm living in a fantasy world? You're the one who's neutral?

How about a time out, boys.

ivy in ypur opinion how many made guys roughly are in detroit? because if there are above ten there has to be some viability. viable to me sounds like that there is a lcn hierarchy still present then the amount of indictments right?

The last official estimate I'm aware of is from the big 1996 bust when there was said to be 29 made members left. People can bring up mcscott's charts and sources but the fact is his charts have changed many times over the years. He's admitted before that he's not always sure who's made and he's often included associates.

Even if one were to assume that they missed identifying some guys back in the 1990's, and others have been made since then, I don't think it's very likely that the total membership in Detroit today could exceed 30 at most, considering others have died over the past 16 years. There's just not enough activity to warrant the belief that there are still 50+ made guys there.

And again, I don't necessarily argue there isn't still a viable family in Detroit. They apparently do have some semblance of a hierarchy and there is some activity. What I disagree with is the assertion that they're as big or as strong as some believe them to be. In my opinion, on the list of remaining "viable" families, Detroit would be at the bottom.

I agree with you on activity and that there not really strong has the eastern families but viable to me just sounds like as I said a semblance of a hierarchy. So is that chart got guys who are really associates then?

Which chart are you referring to? Mcscott has come out with one just about every year since 2006. The guys he has listed in the past who are obviously associates are ones who aren't even Italian. Yet, he would sometimes list them as "soldiers." Not sure why he did that. I'd bet a good chunk of the guys on the charts that show 50+ members are associates and not all made.

anybody have any info on where the most activity is in detroit? i would think most would be in the surrounding suburbs rather than the city itself. detroit is in the worst shape of any big city in america by far, i cant even think of a close second.

yes i also think most of what is left of the mafia there is in the suburbs the city is among the most violent in the states and thats another reason coz fbi dont focus of mafia anymore there
robberies and street gangs create by far more social alarm than mafia in that city although probably the mafia is the most powerful as a single entity
most of mafiosi are related and they have connections to sicily over there, carini terrasini

Yeah, the family has been mainly in the eastern suburbs for years.

In my opinion, there is a small, viable family at the moment in Detroit, but think about this: Tocco is very, very rich. So are his children, grandchildren etc. Why would you make a lot of new guys, start new crews etc.? You only risk drawing attention from the Feds, new people turning rat and so on. Why take the risk? The family is probably slowly dying out.

i would have said newark like 5 years ago.

they don't let the family die, they make new guys especially among their bloods now but if they need they make outside people in the suburbs there are still several italians living
the mafiosi dont think to stop the illegal business even when they are billionare especially if they have relatives involved

if that was the case then the ny and philly fbi branches would devote much more resources to combating street crimes with all the gangs in both cities than wasting time putting up an indictment of a family like philly which involved no actual violence but just gambling, etc.

newark was and still is a violent city, although things seem to be on an upswing. the thing about detroit is that almost the entire infastructure has crumbled. most big cities have a few bad areas but are pretty safe for the most part(ny). in the actual city of detroit there might be a few decent neighborhoods, but for the most part its hell.

proof: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6WKMNmFsxM

the level of violence in ny is very low compared to detroit street gangs in ny are not so violent and the mafia activity is huge there even in drug trafficking

The level of street gang violence in ny is lower compared to nyc, but the violence is still there. Every day you read about kids getting shot or hit by stray bullets. Selling drugs, prostitution, assaults, or murders you name it it happens in nyc, might not be at the same level ad detroit but it still occurs.

what areas are still bad areas in nyc? i would say the south bronx, brownville and bed-sty in brooklyn, most of harlem and jamiaca queens but i dont live there so this is just what rap music tells me

i completely agree

Dont forget East NY - which is widely known as the last major crime bastion in NYC. Guys get shot in FRONT of police stations in broad daylight there, not to mention cops get shot and killed every few months there. Before business school, I worked at an organization that did some community development in East NY. That area isnt a joke to say the least.

I grew up in the south bronx (my parents still live there, dont want to leave the spanish neighborhood), even though currently it is slowly gentrifying especially the area around the stadium cause people who cant afford to buy apts in Manhattan are scooping them up in the south bronx, it is not very safe at night and gang violence is still a common occurrence.

Bed stuy is not even that bad (compared to how it used to be, but i dont recommended hanging out at night), now you see tons hipsters walking/moving into that neighborhood especially during the day and on the subway. Many people are buying up all the brownstones in the area and fixing them up for a nice profit.

side note: one day I was walking past this african american barbershop in East NY, and in the window there was a mannequin with a shit that had a large picture of John Gotti on the front with the headline "no one on the corner had swagger like me". I thought that was an interesting sight.

You are assuming that all FBI branch follow the same agenda though.Just because Detroit does something doesn't mean that Phillly and NY would do it and vice verse. Perhaps the senior FBI guys in Philly still deem the mafia to be a bigger threat or care more about the headlines. Doesn't mean the FBI guys in Detroit feel that way. Anyways its all just speculation and I guess we can agree to disagree.

^^^i am not assuming that as evidenced by my previous posts on the different priorities of the ny and detroit fbi offices above. Obcourse any FBI office would want to be in the headlines, headlines=media exposure=more funding=promotions,etc

but we can agree to disagree