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How far would Luciano have gotten today? #634964
02/15/12 05:34 AM
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tiger84 Offline OP
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Ive been doing some research about lucky,Meyer and frank and it seems to me luciano got as far as he did because Maranzano and masseria were retarted.They were so old school that they never would think that someone would betray the boss.In today the good bosses like chin would never associate with guys that young and would never have given them the offers that those 2 gave luciano.Notice how something like this has never happend to any boss todays guys r smarter its just that LE is also much smarter

Re: How far would Luciano have gotten today? [Re: tiger84] #634970
02/15/12 06:21 AM
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Yeah I thin this too, all those old guys like Gambino, Luciano etc would get sent to prison for life just like the rest today.

Re: How far would Luciano have gotten today? [Re: tiger84] #634975
02/15/12 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted By: tiger84
Ive been doing some research about lucky,Meyer and frank and it seems to me luciano got as far as he did because Maranzano and masseria were retarted.


I wouln´t call either Masseria nor Maranzano retarded. Masseria was cunning and shrewd as the rest of the bosses.
Maranzano was an educated man, studied to become a priest and spoke several languages, including Latin.
Maranzano was certainly a man with principles and values. That is why he clashed with the younger breed of gangsters, represented by Luciano, who didn´t value the old tradition that much.
An interesting description of Maranzano regarding his voice was made by Bonanno in his book "A Man of Honor":
"His voice...ah, his voice. What an important aspect of a man, his voice. We remember voices, it seems to me, more than we do faces. Sound seems to be more ancient than sight.
He had a sweet voice, not at all buff or grasso profundo. His voice had an entrancing echolike quality. When Maranzano used his voice assertively, to give a command, he was the bellknocker and you were the bell."

Just to remind you Tiger, Lucky Luciano (regardless of if he was framed or not) was sentenced to 30-50 years imprisonment for extorting prostitutes and this after a five year reign as boss. The question remains. How long would he have lasted today?


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Re: How far would Luciano have gotten today? [Re: HairyKnuckles] #634977
02/15/12 07:50 AM
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Is there any truth to him being framed or is it just some sort of famboyism by certain people trying to make it seem that a mob boss would not be involved with prostitution.

Re: How far would Luciano have gotten today? [Re: Scorsese] #634983
02/15/12 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted By: Scorsese
Is there any truth to him being framed or is it just some sort of famboyism by certain people trying to make it seem that a mob boss would not be involved with prostitution.



Prostitution was/is a big no-no in the mob. In order to become made, the proposed member was carefully checked if he had had any dealings in this racket. If this was the case, the proposed member was not allowed in. I think Bonanno stated that if somebody had been pinping out women in the past, he could never be a man of honor.
I doubt very much that Lucky Luciano was a pimp while in the Mafia.
In my opinion, the prosecutor Thomas Dewey had a hard on for putting Luciano behind bars. Fight against crime was often a ticket to a higher office. (Maybe it still is.)

After Luciano´s incarceration, several witnesses stated that they had testified falsely at his trial. The prostitute Cookie Flo claimed that she made up things because of her heroin addiction and just wanted to get out of there as quick as possible.
Speculations arose that Dewey was out to get Luciano at any price (even by squeezing and manipulating the prostitutes) and if I´m not mistaken, Dewey was forced to give his own testimony later on, in order to prove that this was not the case.

The other defendents who also was charged (Ligouri, Betillo, Tommy Bull and other footsoldires) used Luciano´s name in order to intimdate the victims. But was Luciano aware of this?
Another question is why did Cookie Flo reveal her false testimony after the trial?
Perhaps she eventually realized, after being squeezed by Dewey, what a dangerous position she was in, and decided to try to buy herself a ticket out.


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Re: How far would Luciano have gotten today? [Re: tiger84] #634987
02/15/12 09:32 AM
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What I find interesting is how even back in the 30's and 40's the "new breed" didn't adhere to the old school principles. If they knew how bad it has gotten currently, they wouldn't even recognize OC today.

Re: How far would Luciano have gotten today? [Re: CleveItalia] #635007
02/15/12 12:26 PM
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I dont think that prostitution was banned. Its one of the biggest markets still to this day. The Outfits original boss were heavily involved in brothels and white slavery. Luciano was one of the biggest drug dealers in the country at the time, i doubt it was beneath him to make money off of prostitution.

I think luciano in this day and age would try and put mob back in to the status it had during his time and the control they once had over everything including drugs, but i think he would fail either by going to prison or getting murdered.

Re: How far would Luciano have gotten today? [Re: Scorsese] #635009
02/15/12 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted By: Scorsese
I dont think that prostitution was banned. Its one of the biggest markets still to this day. The Outfits original boss were heavily involved in brothels and white slavery. Luciano was one of the biggest drug dealers in the country at the time, i doubt it was beneath him to make money off of prostitution.

I think luciano in this day and age would try and put mob back in to the status it had during his time and the control they once had over everything including drugs, but i think he would fail either by going to prison or getting murdered.


Yes. But keep in mind that Colosimo was not part of the Mafia, which back then was a purely Sicilian thing. Colosimo was Neopolitan. The Camorra gangs at that time had other rules and values. It was the Camorra gang who dealt with prostitution and drug dealing.
Luciano, allthough being a Sicilian, was never steeped in Mafia tradition. He was basically a street guy who grew up with the values found on the street. That is why Bonanno referred to himas an "Americanized" mafioso. These "americanized" mafiosi only valued money.
Bonanno stated that he had a great friendship with Luciano. But their "political" views and values was very far apart.
But he also stated that he doubted that Luciano was involved with prostitution.


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Re: How far would Luciano have gotten today? [Re: HairyKnuckles] #635011
02/15/12 12:58 PM
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bonnano was involved in heroin trafficking aswell. His family was one of the most involved with drugs. I wouldnt really take his word on anything. You might be right about the prostitution but i just find it hard to believe that a group of murderous gangsters would shun one of the oldest and most lucrative criminal activities because a few of them felt it violated their so called principles.
http://gangstersinc.ning.com/profiles/blogs/how-the-sicilian-mafia-flooded

Re: How far would Luciano have gotten today? [Re: Scorsese] #635016
02/15/12 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted By: Scorsese
bonnano was involved in heroin trafficking aswell. His family was one of the most involved with drugs. I wouldnt really take his word on anything. You might be right about the prostitution but i just find it hard to believe that a group of murderous gangsters would shun one of the oldest and most lucrative criminal activities because a few of them felt it violated their so called principles.
http://gangstersinc.ning.com/profiles/blogs/how-the-sicilian-mafia-flooded


The Bonanno Family was involved with drugs, Lilo Galante and his crew, Joe Evola and a few others were charged and sentenced for drug trafficking. Bonanno wasn´t able to (allthough being the boss) stop his men from dealing. If you read Bonanno and his son´s book you will see that Bonanno was fiercely against drug trafficking in his Family.
Most of the known mafiamembers who got prosecuted and sentenced for drug dealing back in the 1950s and 1960s (I´d say 90 percent of them) belonged to or was affiliated with the Lucchese, Genovese and Gambino Families. This comes through in the Federal Bureau of Narcotics book that was realeased a couple of years ago. The book is stuffed with known drugtraffickers from these three Mafia Families.
The Bonannos did not dominate the drug trade until later, in the 1970s.

Correction - Let me refrase that. What I meant to say was 90 percent of the guys listed in the New York section of the FBN book.

Last edited by HairyKnuckles; 02/16/12 05:23 AM.

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Re: How far would Luciano have gotten today? [Re: HairyKnuckles] #635029
02/15/12 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted By: HairyKnuckles

Most of the known mafiamembers who got prosecuted and sentenced for drug dealing back in the 1950s and 1960s (I´d say 90 percent of them) belonged to or was affiliated with the Lucchese, Genovese and Gambino Families. This comes through in the Federal Bureau of Narcotics book that was realeased a couple of years ago. The book is stuffed with known drugtraffickers from these three Mafia Families.

Could you tell me the title of the book? I would be interested in reading it.


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Re: How far would Luciano have gotten today? [Re: HairyKnuckles] #635031
02/15/12 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted By: HairyKnuckles
Originally Posted By: Scorsese
bonnano was involved in heroin trafficking aswell. His family was one of the most involved with drugs. I wouldnt really take his word on anything. You might be right about the prostitution but i just find it hard to believe that a group of murderous gangsters would shun one of the oldest and most lucrative criminal activities because a few of them felt it violated their so called principles.
http://gangstersinc.ning.com/profiles/blogs/how-the-sicilian-mafia-flooded


The Bonanno Family was involved with drugs, Lilo Galante and his crew, Joe Evola and a few others were charged and sentenced for drug trafficking. Bonanno wasn´t able to (allthough being the boss) stop his men from dealing. If you read Bonanno and his son´s book you will see that Bonanno was fiercely against drug trafficking in his Family.
Most of the known mafiamembers who got prosecuted and sentenced for drug dealing back in the 1950s and 1960s (I´d say 90 percent of them) belonged to or was affiliated with the Lucchese, Genovese and Gambino Families. This comes through in the Federal Bureau of Narcotics book that was realeased a couple of years ago. The book is stuffed with known drugtraffickers from these three Mafia Families.
The Bonannos did not dominate the drug trade until later, in the 1970s.


Id have to take anything he says in a book about himself at face value. To me though drugs were just a natural progression from prohibition. You cant ignore the profits if your in a crime group that big its just unrealistic.

Re: How far would Luciano have gotten today? [Re: Dwalin2011] #635032
02/15/12 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted By: Dwalin2011
Originally Posted By: HairyKnuckles

Most of the known mafiamembers who got prosecuted and sentenced for drug dealing back in the 1950s and 1960s (I´d say 90 percent of them) belonged to or was affiliated with the Lucchese, Genovese and Gambino Families. This comes through in the Federal Bureau of Narcotics book that was realeased a couple of years ago. The book is stuffed with known drugtraffickers from these three Mafia Families.

Could you tell me the title of the book? I would be interested in reading it.


It´s basically a compilation of known mafia members and associates who were involved with drug trafficking. It´s hell of a interesting book. All entrys are shown with a mugshot and infos with birth of date, description, family background, criminal associates, modus operandi etc...
I´m impressed by the FBNs intelligence work regarding all the data they managed to collect.

http://www.amazon.com/Mafia-Governments-Secret-Organized-Crime/dp/0061363855


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Re: How far would Luciano have gotten today? [Re: tiger84] #635073
02/15/12 05:41 PM
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As far as in a maximun security prison.


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Re: How far would Luciano have gotten today? [Re: tiger84] #635096
02/15/12 08:26 PM
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Sure are a lot of hypothetical threads on this board.


Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
Re: How far would Luciano have gotten today? [Re: IvyLeague] #635116
02/15/12 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
Sure are a lot of hypothetical threads on this board.
yes they annoy the crap outta me....


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Re: How far would Luciano have gotten today? [Re: IvyLeague] #635119
02/15/12 11:38 PM
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Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
Sure are a lot of hypothetical threads on this board.


Wiseguy, you know you're still my favorite mormon EVER, and I'm sure in another life, I could've been your #1 and FIRST wife...but... if people don't hypothesize over mob stuff, what else is there, unless new news emerges? The same recycled, regurgitated bullshit? Don't you guys get bored to tears with all that? In the interim of waiting for anything new, it seems all there is to do is to make theories and hypothesize. Just sayen (rip frosty).


La madre degli idioti e' sempre incinta.

Re: How far would Luciano have gotten today? [Re: carmela] #635120
02/15/12 11:42 PM
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Originally Posted By: carmela
Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
Sure are a lot of hypothetical threads on this board.


Wiseguy, you know you're still my favorite mormon EVER, and I'm sure in another life, I could've been your #1 and FIRST wife...but... if people don't hypothesize over mob stuff, what else is there, unless new news emerges? The same recycled, regurgitated bullshit? Don't you guys get bored to tears with all that? In the interim of waiting for anything new, it seems all there is to do is to make theories and hypothesize. Just sayen (rip frosty).



I see what you're saying.


Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
Re: How far would Luciano have gotten today? [Re: tiger84] #635125
02/16/12 12:01 AM
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what happened to frosty?


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Re: How far would Luciano have gotten today? [Re: carmela] #635127
02/16/12 12:21 AM
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Originally Posted By: carmela
Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
Sure are a lot of hypothetical threads on this board.


Wiseguy, you know you're still my favorite mormon EVER, and I'm sure in another life, I could've been your #1 and FIRST wife...but... if people don't hypothesize over mob stuff, what else is there, unless new news emerges? The same recycled, regurgitated bullshit? Don't you guys get bored to tears with all that? In the interim of waiting for anything new, it seems all there is to do is to make theories and hypothesize. Just sayen (rip frosty).

well you could still be my first wife hell i would even settle for you to be my mid wife lol..... smile smile but i just think there are better things to talk about


I hate Dicknoses!!!!!!
Re: How far would Luciano have gotten today? [Re: tiger84] #635128
02/16/12 12:24 AM
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What would have happened if Luciano failed to floss daily? Or even more importantly, how far could he have gone if they had central air conditioning back in the day?


Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
Re: How far would Luciano have gotten today? [Re: phatmatress] #635129
02/16/12 12:30 AM
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Originally Posted By: phatmatress
Originally Posted By: carmela
Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
Sure are a lot of hypothetical threads on this board.


Wiseguy, you know you're still my favorite mormon EVER, and I'm sure in another life, I could've been your #1 and FIRST wife...but... if people don't hypothesize over mob stuff, what else is there, unless new news emerges? The same recycled, regurgitated bullshit? Don't you guys get bored to tears with all that? In the interim of waiting for anything new, it seems all there is to do is to make theories and hypothesize. Just sayen (rip frosty).

well you could still be my first wife hell i would even settle for you to be my mid wife lol..... smile smile but i just think there are better things to talk about


I do! BUT, I'll have to see the ring first!

Yeah, I know, there's always something better to talk about. You know me..always bitching and complaining about something. wink


La madre degli idioti e' sempre incinta.

Re: How far would Luciano have gotten today? [Re: carmela] #635137
02/16/12 01:33 AM
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Originally Posted By: carmela
Originally Posted By: phatmatress
Originally Posted By: carmela
Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
Sure are a lot of hypothetical threads on this board.


Wiseguy, you know you're still my favorite mormon EVER, and I'm sure in another life, I could've been your #1 and FIRST wife...but... if people don't hypothesize over mob stuff, what else is there, unless new news emerges? The same recycled, regurgitated bullshit? Don't you guys get bored to tears with all that? In the interim of waiting for anything new, it seems all there is to do is to make theories and hypothesize. Just sayen (rip frosty).

well you could still be my first wife hell i would even settle for you to be my mid wife lol..... smile smile but i just think there are better things to talk about


I do! BUT, I'll have to see the ring first!

Yeah, I know, there's always something better to talk about. You know me..always bitching and complaining about something. wink
well you have every right too smile


I hate Dicknoses!!!!!!
Re: How far would Luciano have gotten today? [Re: HairyKnuckles] #635156
02/16/12 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted By: HairyKnuckles
Originally Posted By: Scorsese
bonnano was involved in heroin trafficking aswell. His family was one of the most involved with drugs. I wouldnt really take his word on anything. You might be right about the prostitution but i just find it hard to believe that a group of murderous gangsters would shun one of the oldest and most lucrative criminal activities because a few of them felt it violated their so called principles.
http://gangstersinc.ning.com/profiles/blogs/how-the-sicilian-mafia-flooded


The Bonanno Family was involved with drugs, Lilo Galante and his crew, Joe Evola and a few others were charged and sentenced for drug trafficking. Bonanno wasn´t able to (allthough being the boss) stop his men from dealing. If you read Bonanno and his son´s book you will see that Bonanno was fiercely against drug trafficking in his Family.
Most of the known mafiamembers who got prosecuted and sentenced for drug dealing back in the 1950s and 1960s (I´d say 90 percent of them) belonged to or was affiliated with the Lucchese, Genovese and Gambino Families. This comes through in the Federal Bureau of Narcotics book that was realeased a couple of years ago. The book is stuffed with known drugtraffickers from these three Mafia Families.
The Bonannos did not dominate the drug trade until later, in the 1970s.

Correction - Let me refrase that. What I meant to say was 90 percent of the guys listed in the New York section of the FBN book.


Actually it is common knowledge Joe and his son Bill were neck deep in the drug trade and that 90% of his book is fiction. Do a few searches over at the Realdeal forum and you might have a different opinion. You really think he had know idea his underboss was one of the biggest drug dealers in the country? I suppose to that when Carmine Galante went to Palermo Sicily in 1957 to establish a heroin pipeline to NY, Bonnano went with him just to go sight seeing and had no idea Galante was meeting with heroin dealers at their hotel?

Last edited by Mussolini14; 02/16/12 06:52 AM.
Re: How far would Luciano have gotten today? [Re: Mussolini14] #635159
02/16/12 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted By: Mussolini14


Actually it is common knowledge Joe and his son Bill were neck deep in the drug trade and that 90% of his book is fiction. Do a few searches over at the Realdeal forum and you might have a different opinion. You really think he had know idea his underboss was one of the biggest drug dealers in the country? I suppose to that when Carmine Galante went to Palermo Sicily in 1957 to establish a heroin pipeline to NY, Bonnano went with him just to go sight seeing and had no idea Galante was meeting with heroin dealers at their hotel?


Common knowledge? Please tell me where that common knowledge originates from. From guys posting on Real Deal? Ask their sources and they´ll probably say "well...it´s all over internet!"
Lilo Galante and his crew (Galante was a captain, not Bonanno´s underboss) was heavily involved with drug trafficking. I am not denying that. But if you read Bonanno and do a little research yourself, you will find that the Gambinos, Luccheses and Genoveses had a lot more people involved with drugtrafficking.
Their bosses allowed their men into that field, Bonanno did not.
Neither did Profaci.
It wasn´t until 1963 that Carlo Gambino banned drugtrafficking in his Family. This you can find in FBI documents, on the Mary Farrell Foundation site.
Another way to do a little research (actually it is a major project, but anyway...), take a look in the FBN book. And this is why I mentioned it in an earlier post in this thread. You will see the gros majority of the New York Mafia members and associates, who dealt with narcotics, where part of the Gambino, Lucchese and Genovese Families. Only a handful men, out of 800 listed in that book, was with the Bonannos and Profacis.

As to your statement of 90 percent of Bonanno´s book being fiction...I wonder where did you get that number from?
Nobody, up to date, has been able to prove Bonanno being a liar. So your 90 percent seems a way, way off.

It´s always better to do research by checking sources before believing what everybody can write on the internet.

Last edited by HairyKnuckles; 02/16/12 08:03 AM.

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Re: How far would Luciano have gotten today? [Re: tiger84] #635180
02/16/12 10:31 AM
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Joe Bannana's painted himself out to be something he wasn't in that book.......


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Re: How far would Luciano have gotten today? [Re: HairyKnuckles] #635189
02/16/12 12:23 PM
02/16/12 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted By: HairyKnuckles


Common knowledge? Please tell me where that common knowledge originates from. From guys posting on Real Deal? Ask their sources and they´ll probably say "well...it´s all over internet!"
Lilo Galante and his crew (Galante was a captain, not Bonanno´s underboss) was heavily involved with drug trafficking. I am not denying that. But if you read Bonanno and do a little research yourself, you will find that the Gambinos, Luccheses and Genoveses had a lot more people involved with drugtrafficking.
Their bosses allowed their men into that field, Bonanno did not.
Neither did Profaci.
It wasn´t until 1963 that Carlo Gambino banned drugtrafficking in his Family. This you can find in FBI documents, on the Mary Farrell Foundation site.
Another way to do a little research (actually it is a major project, but anyway...), take a look in the FBN book. And this is why I mentioned it in an earlier post in this thread. You will see the gros majority of the New York Mafia members and associates, who dealt with narcotics, where part of the Gambino, Lucchese and Genovese Families. Only a handful men, out of 800 listed in that book, was with the Bonannos and Profacis.

As to your statement of 90 percent of Bonanno´s book being fiction...I wonder where did you get that number from?
Nobody, up to date, has been able to prove Bonanno being a liar. So your 90 percent seems a way, way off.

It´s always better to do research by checking sources before believing what everybody can write on the internet.


The issue isn't whether the Bonannos had more or less involvement in the drug trade than the other NY families, it's whether Bonanno was involved in it; at least as far as allowing it as boss. Is anyone going to believe that Bonanno did not know and allow Galante's drug trafficking?

That said, some interesting stats I read from 1957 -

3 in 5 (60%) Lucchese members had been arrested for narcotics.

1 in 2 (50%) Genovese members had been arrested for narcotics.

1 in 3 (33%) Bonanno and Colombo members had been arrested for narcotics.

1 in 5 (20%) Gambino members had been arrested for narcotics.


Of course, these relative family percentages looked different 20 years later.


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Re: How far would Luciano have gotten today? [Re: IvyLeague] #635192
02/16/12 12:49 PM
02/16/12 12:49 PM
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The luccheses were heavily involved with distributing that french connection heroin. And then after that you had the pizza connection which i think was mostly a bonanno backed operation and the gambinos aswell even more so after the first round of arrests against the zips. I think that every family went through periods of time where they were the dominant drug traffickers amongst the five families except for perhaps the columbos.

Re: How far would Luciano have gotten today? [Re: IvyLeague] #635201
02/16/12 01:45 PM
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Interesting stats, Ivy.
Please name the source and I will try to check it out.


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Re: How far would Luciano have gotten today? [Re: HairyKnuckles] #635213
02/16/12 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted By: HairyKnuckles
Interesting stats, Ivy.
Please name the source and I will try to check it out.


I don't have a link or anything. It was something in my files and I had posted them over on the RD forum back in 2007 (link below). If I remember right, it was from the Federal Bureau of Narcotics.

http://realdeal-forum.com/forum/viewtopi...nanno+narcotics


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