I received a PM from one of the members here that basically asked me if and why the Mob is different than it was over 25 -30+ years ago. After replying to his PM i felt that his question was a good one that deserved to be posted and discussed on the boards. So without revealing who that member is who sent me the PM ( I'll leave it up to him to reveal himself in this topic if he chooses to do so) I am posting my reply to him :


Please keep in mind when writing my feelings about the mob, the Mafia and La Cosa Nostra that I in no way endorse, support, admire or hold in high esteem these people because they are really nothing more than punks, murderers, leaches and most of all cowards. Obviously by being a member of these boards I do have an interest in mob history as it has had a significant influence in the many laws that have been implemented in this country and therefore has infamously made it's place in part of history over the last century.

Is the mob anything like it was 25 - 30+ years ago? Of course not. Things seemed to change in the early 80's as the young turks began to "get away" from and disrespect the traditional mob cardinal rules that were put into place by La Cosa Nostra. The unwritten "honor" among thieves rules that were adhered to over the decades slowly began to erode because the young guns did not want to "work their way' up the ranks and instead began to take what they thought was the easy way up by disrespecting their bosses, flashing their wealth in the streets trying to impress those around them and acting like tough guys who were "all powerful" They wanted those around them to KNOW that they were connected and / or mobbed up. And in doing so they brought unneeded attention to the mob and the families. That unneeded attention gave the authorities the tools to eventually go after the mob. And because the authorities began to round up and build cases against these mobsters, it caused these flashy punks to begin to make deals and rat....which really caused the toppling of what was once a solid foundation for La Cosa Nostra.

Most, not all, but most of the "old timers" (again they like the young punks were nothing more than murdering cowards) acted differently. They did NOT seek outside attention. They remained humble in the public eye, made themselves appear as though they were church going family men ( can you spell Carlo Gambino? ). They frowned upon any kind of flashiness because they knew that it would only bring unneeded attention to this thing of theirs.

Of course their were the exceptions throughout the decaades.....Bugsy Siegel, Joe Colombo and John Gotti to name a few. But the "smart" mobsters, the real powerful people around them frowned upon and even warned these guys about their flashiness and attention seeking actions. Meyer Lansky and Charlie Lucky constantly warned Siegel. Carlo Gambino despised Joe Colombo's quest to bring equality to the Italian American community. Joe Armone and Neil Dellacroce continually scolded Gotti for his flashiness.

In my opinion things for the Mafia began to crack right after the death of Carlo Gambino. That crack began to grow even bigger with the death of Neil Dellacroce...and it really began to crumble when John Gotti came to power and basically challenged the federal government to try get him.

Of course Sammy Gravano was, in my opinion, the final wrecking ball that knocked La Cosa Nostra completely to the ground.

And in keeping with my feelings that it all began in the early 80's, there is no doubt that U.S Attorney Rudy Giuliani built the foundation that eventually dealt a striking blow to the mob because of his willingness to go after the mob and his ability to utilize the RICO statute in doing so.


So to simply answer the original question presented to me i a PM of "Is the mob anything like it was 25 - 30+ years ago?" In my opinion it is not due to the reasons that I stated above.

Good post and I fully agree with what you say.

I think that the first seeds that led to the Mafia decline was sown when its members started to value money over honor, loyalty and total obedience. Money corrupted the original values and rules that the Mafia was built upon.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think in Sicily, in the past, for the ordinary man, there was no other way to achieve status than by presenting himself as a most honorable man, rigorous, and just. This was the bolts in the ordinary Sicilian man and the worst insult to these men was to claim he was anything but just that.
Money was secondary and only a byproduct of power. When the Mafia adopted the American lifestyle it turned into an organization with a money first mentality at the expense of solid foundation of rules and values that once made it so strong.

A decreasing stream of potential recrutits already in the late 1960s and 1970s resulted in poor leadership in the 1980s and further. And the government´s fight against the Mafia with laws like RICO has proven very successful.
The last 20 years or so, the fight against the Mafia has brought numerous of turncoats, many upper echelon mobsters who had devastating testemonies to give.
And perhaps most importantly, tha Mafia today totally lacks political protection that kept them powerful in the past.

I also would like to mention the non existent Commission that for more than 50 years was the glue that held it all together.
The smaller Families outside of New York had all representatives on the Commission. When the Commission was no longer in function, it contributed vastly to their downfall.

I think there never was any honor in the mafia. Even the "traditionalist" mafiosi who opposed themselves to Totò Riina's Corleonesi didn't hesitate to kill women and children. Also, drugs have started to be sold much time before the "new" mafia came to power.

Great post, DC. I just want to add that law enforcement should get its due as well. If the RICO Act and today's technology were around fifty years ago, things would have been a lot different.

Well, according to our standards killing a woman or a child is an awful crime. But let´s not forget the mentality of these men. They killed not because of cruelty but mostly because of pragmatical reasons. In their set of minds, nobody is immune from punishment.

Yes, but the children were mostly killed not because they had actually done something, but because they had seen something they shouldn't have or because the murderers wanted to hurt their relatives through their deaths. It's not like they punished them for something they had actually done. So, in my opinion, this is dishonorable even according to medieval standards.

I forget where I read it or heard it maybe on here thought it was interesting that the feds weren't smart enough to effectively use the rico law till about 10 or 15 years later.

The male children are killed for fear that some day they'll be men and they'll want vengeance. But you're right, there's no honor is killing a child. Ever.

Hey Pizzaboy I'm associated with "The Outfit" and thats not how things work!- DicknoseVET

The law went into effect in 1970, but wasn't used properly until the Commission Trial of 1986. After Giuliani and Blakey showed everyone how to use it effectively, it was the beginning of the end.

I agree, I think the "real" decline started in the late 70s. Also, after the French Connection was busted, the mob became even more involved in the distribution of narcotics, which brought more attention of law enforcement. The same happened with the mob's activities in Las Vegas in the late 1970s. I think the downfall of the Cleveland syndicate was a symbolic starting point for the decline of the American Mafia.

Stop, Dicknose. You might be a wiseass, but that guy is outright fucking crazy .

Dawlin, I agree with you. There´s no honor in killing innocent women and children.
But this is the mind set of the Sicilian mafioso. And they still consider themselves as men of honor even after comitting such terrible crimes. They follow their rules. Not our rules. The follow their laws. Not our laws.

i think so too...on the cleveland family...they were really the first family to start to crumble...the whole danny green thing, and with lonardo .....the first true underboss to flip...not sammy the bull.

I thought the American costa nostra does not kill innocent people, family members and people in law enforcement?

It did happened a few times.Maybe more than just a few times but i know only for few cases.

Like for example?

Pete Chiodo's sister and the "wrong" Nicky Guido to name just a couple.

I have never been to the USA, but from what I read it does indeed seem the American mafia is more careful in such matters than the Italian one. Still, there were some cases like “Gaspipe” Casso ordering hits on relatives of suspected informants, Carmine Persico ordering a hit on the prosecutor Aronwald and mistakenly killing his father or Salvatore Avellino ordering a hit on the businessman Kubecka who opposed himself to the mafia and provided evidence for the trials.

Oh uh I remember. I read the gaspipe book and uh that was terrible!

Check this out :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pImY6C4BGSw

Yes. And there was a shootout in the Ridgewood section of Queens where a police officer where shot to detah. Genovese member Fritzy Giovanelli was tried for that but freed.
But you are correct. The American Mafia is generally much different when it comes to these kind of things than the Sicilian Mafia.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lx8eGXOllsU

Whole this doc is about rules and how they respect/disrespect them them today.

How they botched that prosecution---twice---is beyond me. That poor dead cop's family can blame his useless partner for that entire mess.

Yes, it´s beyond me too.

In my opinion, the most clamorous case of the mafia attacking the law enforcement in America is the case of Rosario Borgio in Akron, Ohio, who launched a terroristic campaign against the police in 1918 after he wasn't able to buy them for some reason (very strange considering the fact he managed to buy local politicians).

Very good find, Strax. I haven´t seen this before.
Does anyone know who this "Tony" (ex Bonanno soldier) is?

The one they tried to kill,because he didnt want to "kick up" and stealing ?

We know that doc is from 2007-2009 that period in the doc they say mafia earns 100 billions $,what u think is it true ?

"In 2002 the FBI estimated that the Mafia earns $50–$90 billion a year"

I also want to know who tony is.He sounds interesting.He didnt want to kick up lol