How is the situation with the Buffalo family, i am about to release an updated chart on them. But i have sources telling the opposite, one is claiming the Tudaros have retired. Other sources are claiming that Tudaro Sr. has retired, and Junior has taken over the business. No known consiglieri at the moment, 2-3 capos. And Falzone is a high ranking member, possible underboss, or acting Boss. Total membership is around 20-25, what do you guys think? Some sources claim they are defunct, some put them on the same level as New England, Kansas City and Detroit, where there still is some mafia family left.

They're not on the same level as New England. In my opinion, while Detroit could be argued to be on that line between "viable" and "non viable," Buffalo is the first one on the non viable side. And Kansas City would be after Buffalo. Them having a couple dozen members is due to them being in the northeast as much as anything. There's been very little activity in recent years. Mostly involving individual guys here or there and not really anything resembling a cohesive family. Much of what is thought about the current hierarchy of the family, whatever is left of it anyway, is speculation.

I agree with Ivy.

They have never been a big family actualy,also agree with ivy.

The Todaros legitimized that family?

I've always had an interest in the Buffalo/Rochester families and like New York, i.e. the Bonanno's they shared the designation of having crews in Canada; Hamilton/Niagra to New York Bonanno's Montreal. Fascinating family, that and the wars they had in the 70's, early 80's, particularly Rochester.

I'm one to hope a family is doing better than us nitpickers may say on Mob fanboy forums, but in my whole, honest opinion, I'd say the family is defunct.

One of the few to go defunct threw legitimate ventures and not through the early morning arrests of the FBI.

Though anytime I hear Buffalo, I think of Orange County's (Orange County, California; mind you) only real wiseguy, Jimmy Caci

The Todaros themselves have pretty much gone legit. They'd have to be crazy not to, given that they've got the most successful independent pizzeria in the country and make crazy money with it.

Joe Todaro Sr. is about 90 years old and probably couldn't do much even if he wanted to. Joe Jr. spends all his time working on the pizzeria. I don't think Joe III ever was a gangster.

Buffalo is done! i was in that pizzeria and saw Todaro Jr there like a month and a half back (im in the upstate area for school) he was a gentleman and the pizza was amazing!

He's pretty funny, too. I said something like "I heard this was supposed to be the best pizzeria in town" and he pretended to be offended by the "supposed to be".

nobody could know exactly is a family is viable or not, your only sources are the indictments but they are not enough it depends on the place...
according to your logic the mafia in the 60s was weaker than today because the lack of indictments of that time?
there are several factors, the indcitments and you're right, but you have to consider other factors like the level of corruption of a specific area
if buffalo is more corrupt than detroit for example you get a lack of the ones in buffalo

Well, they do have a little over twenty made members, so I'd say they are still alive and well, just not putting there faces in cameras like many members of the Gambino's did.

i doubt they got any oc activity there to warrant a family, buffalo is a dying city it is basically a shithole (no offense) and is bleeding residents out of there

Buffalo is dead. Rodchester has alot of gang activity and crime I had a friend at RIT

Rochester is as long gone as a mob fam can get, lol. Here is a chart on Rochester I just found.

http://www.gangsterbb.net/threads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=583410

m2w, by any chance are you related to Dan? Just wondering.

No offence to anyone from Buffalo but it is one really crappy town. When I leave Toronto for Hamilton it's like going to a shit hole, but when I get into Buffalo it always strikes me at how crappy that town is. It's so close to Toronto, but like going to a different planet.

I second this. It goes from pleasant to horrifying right quick.

That's upstate New York for you. Newburgh is a real shit hole. There was a massive gang raid there last year.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/12/nyregion/12newburgh.html?pagewanted=all

lmao! its dan in disguse!

i don't know any dan
anyway, like i told you you are wrong if you think the indictments are the only factor to show if a family is viable or not

there are tons of italians in Rochester and Buffalo. its like staten island lite up there. I think there is probably a decent amount of mob activity in terms of bookmaking, sharking, some extortion, quasi-legit businesses, but it's not family orientated mob activity. Like Ivy said regarding whether or not there is a cohesive, viable family up there. I'd say definitely not in Rochester and at this point I'd speculate probably not in Buffalo.

According to Wikipedia it's 11% Italian-American. That's a pretty substantial share of the population, and that's just the urban core - I bet it's higher in the suburbs due to all the white flight.

Most of the Italians in the upstate area are white collar running non-profits, professors, working at colleges, some corporations in the area, not really the usual recruitment pool the mob gets guys from.

Rochester is another dying city (not as bad as Buffalo) but still struggling, upstate is a sad place unfortunately.

You're currently upstate, Dapper?

Just got back to the city on Thursday for winter break. I was upstate mostly since mid August.

Funny thing - some of my professors (a number of Italians) occasionally will make a joke/remark about the mob

one of them said a joke about loansharking one day and said the "gambini family", I wanted to correct him but obcourse didnt haha

another one who is italian made a joke about bribery/cooking the books from a "Jimmy Petruzzo" aka a typical mob/italian name

Whatever you do, never correct a college professor, no matter how ridiculously wrong he is. It'll earn you an enemy for the rest of your time at school. A lot of profs are egomaniacs for some reason, and they don't like to be reminded that they aren't right about everything.

Status and prestige are a big deal for those people.

Thanks for all the information, seems hard to make a chart. What do you guys think of the chart i made last year?

yep you are right, i just laughed with the rest of the class lol

I'll take indictments - or lack thereof - over the nonsense you pull out of thin air, any day.

The Buffalo family didn't have the juice to keep hold of their main power source - LIUNA Local 210 - but they have enough juice to keep the feds and cops off their back 15 years later?

Muk, I'd still make a chart. they are bigger than KC as a family like Ivy said. Plus P would like to see it.

The charts is going as planned, will let you know when its ready.