Yes but 80% of that list are guys that are 70 or over NOW.

No guarantee they even make it to 80. Alot of people don't. And the ones in their 80's now will almost for sure be dead within the next 10 years. And the ones in their 90's now, i can't believe are even still alive. lol It's crazy these guys are still alive at this age. I don't know what they eat for breakfast but give me what they're having! lol.

Yeah why do these fuckers live so long? It seems like the average life expectancy for mob guys (well, the ones who aren't murdered) is about 10 years longer than "normal" people.

Anyway, it's going to be interesting to see how that family handles their coming "demographic crisis".

That's why I say that 2020 may be too soon to see the inevitable "unraveling." Their "demographic crisis," as Ivan called it. Which has already hit the other families to a much bigger degree. For whatever reason, a lot of these guys do live a long time. Well into their 80's and sometimes even 90's. And not only do they stay active, these Genovese guys will still do prison time even when they don't have many years left.

What is your opinions that the Genovese caught a break by 9/11? Did the FBI's re-focus on terrorists allow them to re-group? Personally I can't see it however the family in 2000 compared to 2011 is there any difference?? I would be interested to hear what areas they lost power in this period.
Also I know that some rackets they have been chased out of by the law but have't they also made some new rackets such as the cramming and stock fraud scams?

Nicky,

Yes, they've certainly picked up other rackets. That's how all business is, legitimate or not. You have to evolve or become extinct. But the loss of the garbage rackets and the Fulton fish market can not be understated. Those were devastating financial losses for the Genovese family. There was much more money to be spread around in those businesses. Yes, cramming and stock fraud shemes made a few people very rich. But the garbage business made A LOT of people very rich. There's the difference in a nutshell.

I still think the Bonano's under Massino were the strongest family in the country. If you look at the indictments from the late 90's and early to mid 2000's you see how they had their tentacles all over the place. They were making million in stock market scams with little Robert Lino, Frank Coppa and TC Graziano. Richard Cantarella was making tons of money in the parking lot business and other stuff. Jerry Chili was making huge amounts with boiler room scams and drugs. George from Canada big in the drug business. There was also other money makers like Baldo Amato, Anthony Spero, Patty from the Bronx, Nicky Mouth Santora and ofcourse Vinny Pills better known as Vinny Gorgeous amongst many others. They also had ties with the powerful Rizzutos in Canada.

They should bottle whatever it is those guys take. It's almost like being 75 is middle age to them. Not until they hit their 90's are they considered old. In my family most of the men are gone by their late 70's. The women do a little better.

Yup, bottle it and sell it. They can call it the "Genovese Life System". For when your 75 and in prison and you still have to last another 20 years to go dig up all your ill gotten loot.

Thanks PB, to clarify I don't think their getting stronger or anything, just trying to get some debate going over the subject, didn't want to come over as one of those guys who are in denial over the mobs decline!

It's true. But ironically, Gigante didn't quite make it to 80. I think he was 76 or 77.

Just a kid .

That's okay, Nicky. Mukremin's in enough denial for all of us .

It's always tragic when a guy dies young like that, right when his life is just about to really begin.

Dracula-esque gangster longevity notwithstanding, something like half the current family will be dead in 2020-2030. The Genovese family looks like a demographic time bomb to me. I guess the X factor in all of this is what kind of young associates are there waiting in the wings to be made. We'll see. This should be fun to watch unfold.

What's really weird about the longevity thing is that these guys don't live the healthiest lifestyles. This isn't exactly a bunch of vegans we're talking about here. Many (most?) of them are overweight smokers, yes?

Yeah, well I'm just curious as to how active some of these guys actually are. I remember hearing that Chinky Facchiano offered to do a hit while he was in his 90's, but I have to question how active the rest of these guys are. I mean, it's just hard to collect shylock money when your Depends come untucked.

These guys are too much.

Yeah, some people mellow with age. Some people just get meaner.

I am not in denial i was just pointing out that the Genoveses are the family who are in slow decline.
But sure, i sometimes refuse to see it

Keep in mind that those "old" Genovese captains are probably 'schooling' their younger underlings a lot better than what happens in the other families. I think the Genoveses will still be powerful 25 years from now.

exactly ... couldn't have said it better myself. The Genovese seem more like a "family" than any of the others, if that makes sense. You never, or rarely at most, hear about the cowboy shit that has happened in all of the other families, in the Genovese.

It seems like everyone there knows their role. They all have a role to play. Bosses/ruling panels seem to treat those positions with great responsibility, opposed to treating it like they hit the powerball. They also value the advisor position. Compare the Genovese Consigs in the last 20 years with Consigs in every other family. Sessa, Lastorino, Graziano? Guys who are barely 40 years old advising the administration? Sure those guys made money and know how to pull a trigger, but that's it. That position in every other family has degraded into mouth pieces/yes men for the boss. Not in the Genovese. The administration actually works for the best interests in the family opposed to their individual agendas.

Also success begets success. So if getting made into the Genovese means you've already been in the game for decades with multiple people vouching for you, and you have a lot on the ball...then you get schooled by guys who came up the same way? They have a better perpetuating cycle in place than any of the other families.

I know it sounds like Genovese fanboy'ism hyping up the "mystique" that surrounds the family, but regardless of how it sounds everyone's gotta agree that the Genovese guys are a different breed. Always have been and always will be.

Something else I've wondered too; guys from the Bronx and the city being "better". Anyone else notice this? The Genovese have always had a stronghold in the Bronx and the city, but even in other families guys from the BX and Manhattan always seem to be a little more traditional and have more on the ball. coincidence??? lol I was in a "mobbed up" restaurant a few years ago with my girlfriend, place was empty, but there was a drunk old guy at the bar arguing with his friend and the bartender that the "toughest and smartest guys in the whole state come from East Harlem"

The feds considered them to be about on par with the Gambinos for the #2 spot for a time. But they never supplanted the Genovese family; which was the bigger family, was more diversified, operated more widely, and had the involvement in labor unions and legitimate industries the Bonannos didn't.

Furthermore, it should be mentioned that the Genovese continued to be the top family despite ongoing pressure from law enforcement. The Bonannos were able to make a comeback because the FBI took away resources devoted to that family for about a decade. But once the pressure was back on, things started to crumble with the Bonannos.

It takes decades to build up an organization as powerful as the Genoveses. It took decades for the Genoveses to build up their network and to infiltrade unions and control many aspects of it.

To think the Bonannos could just supplant the Genoveses by doing the same within those ten years of Massino's reign is plain ignorance.