Everyone agrees the Genovese family are the strongest but I'm interested to gage their strength, so are they in decline or strengthening? Have they remained steady since the Commission case?


How many Capo's active? What's their reach into other states? Do they have any political connections etc etc
Thanks.

They have up to 20 capos, acting and real capos. Like all families they are in decline, but much slower pace. I am not sure in what other states they are active, but they may be the only family who have a national influence.

As Mukremin said, they are declining the slowest. They've had the least amount of guys flip, they control the largest bookmaking and loansharking rings in the New York/New Jersey area, and they have the most labor union racketeering activity left. In the 1980's a few reports cited 14 captains. In 2004 one news article cited 22 captains. Even though they are called the "West Side," because of their traditional power base in Manhattan and the Bronx, they are pretty well spread out. They have a big presence in Brooklyn and a fair amount in Queens. They are far and away the strongest in New Jersey, having several crews there while the others have 1 at most. There are still examples of the family engaging in public corruption in the state over the past decade. They also have the most presence in Westchester and the northern suburbs. Still some activity in Connecticut, Springfield, Mass, and south Florida.

Wow...so they had approx. 40 capi in the '80s and have "only" approx. 20 today?
How did that happend? They weren't hit that hard, weren't they?

You must be mistaken, its 14 not 40
no family had 40 capos.

Wonder what Barney is up to? Is he still on any kind of supervised parole or is he free to resume his trade of choice?

oooooooooops.
So they are actually doing better than the '80s??? man.

My thought too.

I heard in the past although families may have had less capos, the crews were massive, far bigger than today.

In 2009 one article listed Bellomo, Benny Mangano, Ernie Muscarella, and Larry Dentico as being on a rotating panel of leaders.

Yeah, back in the 1960's and before the Genovese family supposedly had 6 captains and they were the biggest family. As time went on, the number of captains increased in the families and the crews got smaller. Also, the number of captains in a family may not always equate to the number of fully active crews at a given time.

I'd figure it'd be harder for captains to keep a tight hold on their crews with more soldiers per crew. Though it seems less like a heirarchial structure with bigger crews; soldiers can go to the bosses easier.

Can we really say they have been in decline in say the last 20 years? I don't know about his argument but what about Raab's "Resurgence" theory? Obviously its nothing like the power in the 70s but from 1990-current have they declined much? From 2000-2011 there doesn't appear to be noticeable decline in that period.

what does his resurgence theory include then?

That after 9/11 FBI and government diverted their attention away from organized crime to Terrorist investigations allowing the mob to re-group.

This theory may not be true, its been debated in the last few years whether it realy had that much of an impact. They made it like the mafia was reborn etc, but thats not true.

That's not a theory, it's a fact. The Feds did shift manpower from OC to anti-terrorism after 9/11. But how much an impact it had on OC is debatable.

The Genovese family lost a number of things in the 1990's. The control of commercial waste hauling industry in NY they shared with the Gambinos. As well as their control of the Fulton Fish Market. Both of these were results of new regulations by the Giuliani administration. They also lost control of the Javits Convention Center. Also whatever interests they had in the Times Square porn business when Giuliani cleaned that up.

They're still the strongest family. But it's because they've declined the least. Not because they haven't declined at all or grown stronger. The last family to actually grow in strength was the Bonannos during the 1990's when the feds took their eye off the ball with that family.

Yeah, the indictments have continued to come. It may have given the mob somewhat of a breather, but the fact is, the feds don't need to devote as much manpower to it anymore. At least not compared to the 1980's and 1990's. But the concern is the manpower may be getting too small now. I think the FBI only has about 50 agents for the NY mob now and they've combined the Gambino and Luccheses squads together and the Colombo and Bonanno squads together.

So they still have one squad in total for the Genovese family? That alone shows which family is the strongest, at least to the government.

I'm no expert, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Genovese family started unraveling around 2020 the way the other families have. This is because the majority of the people running it are typically 70-85 years old. They won't be around to hold things together in ten years, and I doubt if today's young gangsters will be able to do as good a job as that generation seems to have.

I agree Ivan. Genovese family seems to be mostly old timers. When they are gone. Just saying

I should add that is what the original report by Capeci seemed to say. But other reports that followed said that the Genovese and Gambinos each have their own squads. The Colombos and Bonannos have a squad. And a third squad is for the Luccheses and Eastern European OC.

A good example may be the family's Springfield crew. Because of attrition and lack of recruits, a relatively young guy like Arillotta gets made and then flips.

That said, the family's power base in New York/New Jersey is different. These are the guys (that are still alive) that have been in the family's administration, the ruling panel, captains, or acting captains.

The median age is about 75. You have 4 in their 90's. 7 in their 80's. 16 in their 70's. 5 in their 60's. 1 in his 50's. And 1 in his 40's.

8 years away (2020) may be too soon where we see the widespread unraveling we have with the other families.


Michael "Mikey Dimino" Generoso - 93
Matthew "The Horse" Ianniello - 91
Venaro "Benny Eggs" Mangano - 90
Ciro Perrone - 90
Lawrence "Larry Fab" Dentico - 88
Mario Gigante - 88
Frank "Punchy" Illiano - 83
Dominick "Quiet Dom" Cirillo - 82
Salvatore "Sammy Meatballs" Aparo - 82
Albert "Kid Blast" Gallo - 81
Silvio DeVita - 80
Frederico "Fritzy" Giovanelli - 79
Charles "Chucky" Tuzzo - 78
John "Johnny Sausages" Barbato - 77
Ludwig "Ninny" Bruschi - 77
Joseph "Pepe" LaScala - 77
Renaldo "Ray" Ruggiero - 77
Anthony "Tico" Antico - 75
James "Jimmy from 8th St" Massera - 75
Alphone "Allie Shades" Malangone - 75
Anthony "Rom" Romanello 74
Michael "Tona" Borelli - 73
Rosario "Ross" Gangi - 72
Angelo "The Horn" Prisco - 72
James "The Little Guy" Ida - 71
Anthony "Tony Parkside" Federici - 71
Daniel "The Lion" Leo - 70
Pasquale "Patsy" Parello - 67
Ernest "Ernie" Muscarella - 66
Arthur "Artie" Nigro - 66
Michael "Mikey Cigars" Coppola - 65
Alan "Baldy" Longo - 61
Anthony "Tony D" Palumbo - 61
Liborio "Barney" Bellomo - 54
Joseph "Joe D" Dente Jr. - 48

Yeah, you're right. 2020 is probably too soon. But I still think it will happen eventually - say 2030 maybe? Even Bellomo will be 70+ then.

I just think it is inevitable that you will see less Quiet Doms and more Arilottas as the years go by and the ancient bosses die off.

I think we can all agree that the Genovese family has substantially benefited from the fact that these guys keep working as active mob leaders well into their 80s (or even 90s sometimes).

I dont see the logic of combining the Luccheses and other OC groups to one squad, but hey the feds know better.

And guys, dont forget each century, or lets say decade. Brings a good smart criminal, they will always come and take the reigns, but it will be few in numbers.

Good god those guys really are all up in the years. If you look at it there's a good chance more then half of the guys on that list Ivy posted will be dead in 10 years. Even the guys in their 60's have a decent shot at not being around. Alot of people die in their 70's. If Barney doesn't get locked up you can picture him running the show when these guys die off.

That's why I think the family will start to unravel. Those old guys are gonna start dropping like flies in the next 10-20 years, and they're probably the glue that holds everything together.

20 years? I think in 10 years 75% of those on Ivy's list will be burning in hell.

I doubt that many of them will live to 90. The odds are most of them are goners in 10 years or less if i was a betting man.

I imagine some of the guys in their 60s might in 20 years still be alive and "only" be in their 80s, but yes in 20 years the guys who are now in their 70s and 80s will mostly be dead, if not all of them.

They're going to have to start making guys like it's going out of style to replace the ones who are going to be dying off over the next decade or two. And there's a good chance they will end up making guys who shouldn't be made. Guys similar to the aforementioned Arilotta.

Again, I'm just speculating. Maybe they've got a bunch of worthy 30 year old associates waiting in the wings who are like Bellomo but even younger. I suppose that's possible too. But I think the scenario in which the old timers all die off and get replaced by knuckleheads is more likely.