Hi guys I had some questions regarding getting made these days. Firstly is it still the same that a Captain will propose an underling to the boss? Also with modern day structures with numerous bosses who decides everything who is at the ceremony?

I heard that until the late 70s the books had been closed for 20 years, in the current day do the books get opened whenever a family feels it necessary, ie they don't need permission from other families?
Do a family make guys today to replace people who have been convicted or have died?
I know the Colombo's had a ceremony busted by the feds last year but does anyone else have any stories about modern making ceremonies?
Sorry for so many questions!

The families havent closed the books in a long time since they reopened them in the 70s. They need all the new guys they can get. From what I can gather, a Captain still proposes a guy to the boss. The administration that is out on the street attends the making ceremony. Guys are made to replace guys who are dead, but there are ways that families get around this (i.e. Bonannos picked random names out of a phone book and said those guys died to justify making new guys during the Massino era)

The Colombos ceremony wasnt busted, the feds trailed the family to the ceremony and once the colombos realized the feds were on their tail they cancelled/rescheduled the ceremony.

I know that when Basciano was leading the Bonannos he re-instituted the whole gun and knife into the ceremony, it was taken out in the past cause the family feared that if they got raided they would be pinched for weapons possession.

Arillotta talked about when he got made -

Arillotta said he was summoned to a restaurant in The Bronx called Nebraska Steakhouse on August 11, 2003. He and another mobster hoping to be “made” were told to leave behind their beepers, jewelry, and cell phones at the bar and they were driven to an apartment building. They were first met by Steve Alfisi a Genovese family soldier who told Arillotta to wait his turn in a small bathroom. Arillotta said about 15 minutes later the door opened and Stevie said , Ant its your turn and he was told to get undressed taking all of his cloths off and to put on a bathrobe. After he was undressed Arillotta said he was told he could leave on his underwear and was handed the bathrobe. When asked by prosecutor Mark Lanpher what the point of undressing and wearing a bathrobe was for , Arillotta said it was to make sure he was not wearing any type of wire or listening device or recorder.

Arillotta went to from there to explain the scene which is familiar to mafia movie fans. Arillotta said he was led into a room where there was a table with a gun on it and Genovese mobsters Pasquale “Scop” DeLuca and Arthur Nigro sitting at it. He was then told by Nigro was is the former acting boss of the Genovese family that they were part of the secret society named La Cosa Nostra , Arillotta said he then agreed to become a member. Then Arillotta said he was asked by Nigro if he would commit murder , would he commit murder for him and he said yes. Arillotta said his finger was then pricked by Nigro with a pin and his blood was smeared on a piece of blank paper that was then set on fire in Arillota’s cupped hands. Then Arillotta was directed to repeat after Nigro that he would never divulge that the meeting ever took place or any secrets of the family or ever cooperate with law enforcement or he would burn like the piece of paper in his hands.

Why would you want to get made in this day and age, if your made it's easier to get a Ricco charge because the connection to the "family" is easier to prove, you are a priced target for the FBI and will garner more attention to your activities. Personally I think being an avtive associate is a better gig these days.

Italian-American mobsters have now also adapted the "La" thing? You got to be kidding me.

The reason people become bosses is egos. The reason the bosses kill is their ego. The reason people get made is egos. They could just as easily decline, as Frankie Flowers did, never be viewed as a public menace. That's kind of what LCN is about. Having thin skin and killing over it, then making the guys who love themselves just as much.

Ivy, that excerpt is pretty funny. It's also a genius idea, finding an actual use for a bathroom stall and keeping it privatized while never asking anyone to leave the room. I remember a scene from Witness to the Mob where the Genovese were conducting meetings in public restrooms. I don't know if there was any factual basis, but it's pretty interesting. Also made way for the best line of the movie 'you're in the wrong room [Genovese member] I heard you sit down to piss'. Before Nicky Cowboy shoots him. But I digress...

Its interesting to consider what are the benefits today for getting made other than stature? In decades past it would of have had many benefits but today...all I'm seeing are drawbacks.

That was based on a real incident, Barrett. A couple of Jersey based Genovese guys were picked up on a wiretap in a restaurant bathroom discussing plans to kill Gotti (on orders from Gigante). The Feds were then dutybound to warn Gotti, and probably saved his life in doing so.

i remember that, who were those jersey guys? I forgot... wasnt bobby manna one of them?

Yeah, Dapper. The wiretap was at Manna's restaurant in Hoboken.

Bobby Manna's Manna and Fat Man Irwin

Louis Anthony Manna, also known as "Bobby," was incensed, furious, irate, in fact very annoyed. The 59-year-old consigliere of the Genovese family was venting his spleen with some of his closest friends and aides at his operating base, Cassella's Restaurant, Hoboken, New Jersey. Unfortunately for him and them, every word they uttered was being recorded on an FBI wiretap, even though they were conversing in the men's room. The deviousness of the FBI bugging teams knows no decent boundaries.

Manna's manna was being sorely savaged by the actions of two different people who were both connected, but miles apart. And both were about to feel the sting of his anger. One was John Gotti, boss of the Gambino family, who would ultimately weather the storm; the other was Irwin Schiff, whose metaphysical ship, himself, would sink with all hands.

The tape heard Manna and his pals discussing plans to murder John and his brother Gene outside their social club in Queens, The Bergen Hunt and Fish Club, where the only fishing was done with rods that fire.38 calibre bullets, and the only hunting occurred across the concrete landscape of New York. The crime they had committed to warrant this finite action was their apparent intention to move into New Jersey and muscle in on the lucrative gambling and labour racketeering business, then the prerogative of the Genoveses.

The man who supposedly would whack the Gottis was Frank "Dipsy" Daniello, a retired Hoboken, New Jersey, police lieutenant. The tape only ever referred to Schiff and his intended killing as the "the fat man," so the FBI were never able to pin this one down. Gotti was subsequently warned by the authorities that his life was under threat. Two FBI agents, Bruce Mouw and George Gabriel, visited John Gotti at his home in Howards Beach and warned him of the threat. Gotti claimed he had no enemies, but when he learned that the threat was originating from the Genovese, he sent Sammy Gravano, newly appointed consigliere of the family, to talk to Gigante's underboss and let them know that they knew of the plot. The Genoveses of course denied it all, but Gotti made sure he had plenty of men around him from that time on, just in case.

Irwin Schiff was big 350 pounds and six-foot three. A 50-year-old con man and loan shark, he was connected to the Gambinos. He was involved in the talent agency business, boxing promotion field and investment business. He was also robbing the Genovese family by skimming money off the top of a money-laundering operation that was run by the family, through him, out of Atlantic City.

On August 8, 1987, he went to dinner with the wife of a friend. She was a beautiful blonde model called Judy Galip. They were dinning at a very exclusive place, Sergio Bravo Ristorante at 1452 Second Avenue, on the Upper East Side of Manhattan. Just as Irwin was about to dive into the desert of his $90 dinner, a man walked up behind him in the crowded restaurant and shot him with a .25 calibre revolver at point blank range, in the head, twice. The killer was allegedly identified as Tony Rotolo, a 46-year-old Italian immigrant.

As a result of the wire taps, and supporting evidence from people like Cafaro, Manna and his mobster friends went on trial on May 6, 1989, at Newark Federal Court, on various racketeering charges, including the murder of Schiff. On June 26, Bobby Manna's manna gave up on him completely and he went to prison for 80 years. The judge in his case was Judge Maryanne Trump, sister of Donald Trump.

Here's the full link: http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/gangsters_outlaws/family_epics/genovese1/20.html

^^^ thanks

the freaking genovese had bobby manna and tino fiumara running around in NJ

thats a fearsome one two punch thats for sure

Sounds retarded, doesn't it? It's like saying "the our thing".

FBI still uses it. I wonder if they will ever get around to fixing that?

Aren't there financial advantages to being made as in kicking up a lower percentage upstairs (in the region of 10% vs 50%) and access to more lucrative family rackets?

Yeah Iv'e wondered about this I guess the benefits are that you get access to more rackets, though if your not made maybe there is less pressure to kick up specific amounts, I mean if your a non-Italian associate are you put under strict guidelines? Because then they could always take their business elsewhere.

Your stupid nobody kicks up half their loot.

guess you are a made men how else would you know.

i was wondering if the families would induct people just to increase the size of the family? or is it just really to replace people.

There's no exact percentage set in stone. Back in 2008 Gambino indictment, it was said the administration was receiving 10% of the family's income. That was after each captain had taken their share and kicked the rest up the ladder. Going back further, Accetturo balked when Amuso and Casso demanded 50% from the Lucchese family's crew in Jersey. Chin was said to take very little money off his captains because he was already a millionaire and didn't need it. From what I understand, you have more freedom as an associate. But you have more clout and often more earning potential if you're made.

The rule in New York is they only replace guys that have died. And maybe 2 at Christmas if they still do that. New guys have to be OK'd by the other families. This is to keep a relative balance and to make sure one family doesn't induct a bunch of new members and outpace the others. But that appears to be what the Bonannos did when they went from about 100 members up to as many as 150 by picking names out of the phone book, saying they had been members that had died, and using them as reasons to make new guys.

Aren't all the NY families operating below what there max numbers potentially could be? If we say the Gambino's and Genovese have 200 members currently isn't there capacity about 250-60? I think that's roughly the membership the Gambino's had under Castellano.
Or have the maximum numbers come down today?

The Genovese and Gambino families each have a little over 200 total members. The Lucchese, Colombo, and Bonanno families each have a little over 100 total members.

"Total" means everybody - active, inactive, in prison, under indictment, etc.

Totally. And nothing for nothing, but from what it sounds heaps of American LCN guys embrace the term. I thought it was the Sicilians that made a point of dropping the "La".

He said "in the region of". And Sacrimoni has contributed more to the boards then you have at this stage. BTW, it's "you're", not "your". So WTF mang?

It is grammatically incorrect in Italian (like I said, in Italian it sounds like "the our thing"). I'm guessing the American guys who use it don't know the Italian language all that well. The Sicilians would have never said "la" to begin with.

I think the FBI may have actually been the first to use the "la", but I'm not sure why. Nonetheless, the mistake seems to have become permanent.

This is my understanding - Under Hoover, the FBI had denied the existence of "the Mafia" for years. But that became harder to do after the Appalachin bust. I remember reading a comment by some official back around that time that said something like, "There's no Mafia but there is a La Cosa Nostra and we've been keeping tabs on it for some time." Apparently a way to save face. Even though it was referred to as "Cosa Nostra" in the FBI's own records, and later identified as such by Valachi, they came up with "La Cosa Nostra" so they could use the acronym "LCN" is their reports, despite it being grammatically incorrect.

Totally. And we know how the FBI like acronyms. Or most governmental departments, for that matter.

But yeah, it is gramatically incorrect. I misworded my post, its not so much that the Sicilians "drop" the la, and more that the Americans have picked it up. I agree that the majority of Gotti era guys would not have had the most commanding grasp of the Italian language in any case.

Oh.
Someone who's serving a life sentence should not be on that list to begin with. Right?
I always thought that the membership # covered just those active or in the can but not for too long.

Is there a way to know the active membership for all 9 families?

They don't cease to be a member simply because they're in prison. You'd only remove somebody from the list if they die or flip.



Maybe a ball park estimate but it's easier to go with total figures since the number of active guys for each family is always changing.

Michael Franzese made the statement that when he was made you had to be Scicllian and he even said that Capone was not a full member since he was not Sicillian. Gotti and Genovese were not. I even found it on youtube and watched it again. He said your mother and father had to be. Oh well who knows......

My bad the narrorator said it

It seems as long as you had the name and were a criminal...you had a chance of getting in. For every guy that says it only for Sicilians there's a bunch of Napoltani and Calabrese or otherwise Italian guys inducted.

Look at Steven Crea or the Corozzo, both have ancestors who hail from the far north of Italy, not just the south or even Campania, but Piedmont and Lombardy. There's definitely a lot of made guys who families are from the Rome, Lazio region, Basilicata, or Apulia. Though it definitely seems there's families with a lot of made guys with ancestry outside of Sicily