Just wanted to start a topic on the Rizzuto Family if anyone cares lol. What do you guys feel about the current situation the family has lost key players as well as minor? Do you think Vito Rizzuto will go legit or seek revenge when he gets out in 2012? Does anyone know of any other criminal orginization trying to muscle out the Rizzuto's? I am on the fence if the Rizzuto's are done and if Vito is going to get whacked before he can get settled in Montreal after his release. I think its possible the Calabrian faction is doing to the Rizzuto's the same which was done to them years ago. Great article..
http://news.nationalpost.com/2010/11/12/rise-of-rizzuto-family-may-be-echoed-in-their-fall/

He'll probably be extradited to Italy.

He will probably be extradited to Italy like Ivy said, and the Calabrian's are the ones most likely doing this to the family.

My questions is once the dust settles will this new family/leadership have any relations to New York(especially the Bonanno's)?

I dont know if Vito Rizzuto burned that bridge with the Bonanno's by turning down numerous promotions to be the new Capo replacing the murdered Sciascia and stopping with the kick backs and severing the ties with Massino. Under new Bonanno leadership with the whole Massino and his capos debauchery turning informants would they forgive and give protection to Rizzuto once out of jail or are they going for fresh blood in Montreal (Calabrian)? Your guys are right about the extradition he still has to answer for that bridge contract in Italy.. Why haven't we heard of the Calabrian's coming forward for retaliation before they waited since 1980 to strike back???

'Ndrangheta is the taking over from Ontario.
They have established at least 7 'ndrine in the GTA.
Hamilton (ON) has a big one too. There are also rumors of a "silent" 'ndrina based in Thunder Bay.

Salvatore Montagna lives in Montreal now. Wonder where will the Bonanno stand in this power transaction.

I remember when Massino got arrested he wanted the guys on the outside that were running things to ensure things were well with Rizzuto i.e. he wanted to make sure they were kicking up their crucial cash which apparently was substantial.

If my opinion counts for anything, I truly believe the Calabrians are the ones behind this. For years they stayed back in the shadows in Canada, forming Families across the country, and letting the Rizzuto's take the power, and the heat. As the years dragged on they made a truce with the Rizzuto's, but waited until the day Vito went away. Once that happened everything fell into place, they wacked Nick Sr, Nick Jr, Paoulo Renda, Frederico Del Peschio, Carlo Bruni, all high high ranking guys within the Sicilian Cosa Nostra in Montreal. Now it is clear the N'Drangheta has filled the vaccum, and sure as hell are not going to take orders from Salvatore Montagna. If Montagna knows what is good for him, he will arrange it so that he earns for both the Bonnanos and the Calabrians, because they will whack him too without hesitation. There are 7 Calabrian organizations in Canada, rest assured they are not scared of the battered 5 Families, they can wipe them out if they want.

I agree with you on this one vinnygorgeous. The Sicilian/Calabrian factionalism goes way back in Montreal, and the Calabrian presence in Canada has only seemed to multiply in recent years. Ndrina are doing a lot of things globally.

Going further, however; I also believe there's some other elements involved in power plays. The string of hits is way above anything you'd think a street element would be capable of, but the firebombings seem way too amature-ish for established Calabrian families.

Give it another five or ten years or so, I guess. It'll hopefully come out in the wash.

I wonder how does the rival organization or faction know about the whereabouts of their rival's boss?

i bet it's a thing inside the sicilian faction, probably some bonannos involved like toto catalano

Its not a rumour about the one in Thunder Bay actually. They do exist, but they were dormant for a long time apparently. According to articles I have read they made new members without the approval of higher ups in Toronto and pissed them off. A high ranking guy from Calabria flew over to help quell tensions. You have to wonder how they came up with new guys to make up in Thunder Bay. Heres one article:

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/crime/article/835931--italian-mafia-probe-shines-light-on-gta-mob

If you'll notice in that article it says that the Ndrangheta has been in Canada since the 50's. In that sense they are only referring to the Siderno group of Toronto. The smaller ndrinas in Ottawa, Thunder Bay and London may also be included in that. This is the group that still maintains very close ties back to Calabria. When they say there is 7 ndrangheta clans, thats just the Siderno group. All other Calabrian mob families in Canada are not included in that.

As far as Hamilton goes, Calabrian mob groups have been there since the 20's. They, along with the Montreal Calabrian faction, are much more Canadianized than the Siderno group, which even though has been here since the 50s, most of the high ranking guys are imported from Calabria, I believe, and they dont have made guys who arent from(or their family) Siderno. In Hamilton and Montreal you are more likely to find more mob guys who are born and raised on this side of the pond, and they arent consulting with people back in Calabria. In Hamilton they are likely still closer with Buffalo.

BTW, not saying you or anyone else reading the thread didnt already know that, I just posted that because a lot of people tend to just lump all Calabrian mafia groups in Canada in together as one massive Ndrangheta group, made up of different cells, all working together, when thats not really the case. Im just trying to provide clarity for those who are not as familiar with the Canadian Mob scene. Different groups came to Canada at different times, and aside from the ones that make up the Siderno group, the rest are all separate from each other, though there are definitely alliances that have been forged, i.e. Luppinos of Hamilton with Violis and Cotronis.

As far as Montreal and the Rizzutos go, it seems obvious that Montreal/Hamilton Calabrians are heavily involved, and it wouldnt surprise me if the Siderno group was involved too, but I dont thinks its a guarantee. And I dont think Montreal would just hand over control of the city to the 7 Ndrinas of Toronto. I would think the Montreal Calabrian group, headed by the Cotronis, is in control of Montreal now.

Cant forget about the D'amicos of Granby, another Calabrian group, who knows where they fit into this.

Anyone know what exact charges Vito Rizzuto is facing in Italy? I thought I read before that he was only facing charges of mafia association, in which case he wouldnt be extradited because that is not a crime in Canada. But that cant be right, he must be facing some money laundering charges or something right?

Speaking of Vito, looks like he has been trying hard to get his sentence reduced, with no luck though. Article is a couple weeks old and doesnt say much, but I didnt see it posted anywhere else:

http://www.cjad.com/CJADLocalNews/entry.aspx?BlogEntryID=10282415

He's wanted for laundering money involving the Messina bridge project.

Like Ivy said. A front company linked to them made a $6.7 million dollar bid for the project. Suspected drug profits.

You summed it up very well Mick.
What about the Scarcellas (headed by Pietro S.) in GTA.
Are they more Italian-Canadianizied rather than 100% Calabrian?

What about southern Ontario's Musitanos?

Great post Mike2010, BTW. I definitly agree that there's too many clans active in Canada for it to be considered all one big conspiracy, as people who are unfamiliar with the way the Ndrine cells are structured and operate are wont to do.

The shifting fortunes of Calabrian elements and the Rizzuto's make's for definite intrigue, but so much has gone on for them (since Vito's imprisonment) on too many different levels. Im not saying Calabrians aren't possibly involved, just that there could be a number of other elements also making power plays.

Yes. you have to remember, Scarcella is actually sicilian himself. He arrived in the 70's and got started as a driver for the late Paul Volpe. The Commissos actually had a contract out on him and Volpe in the early 80s, but later changed it so that only Volpe was in the contract. Of course that didnt work out for them at all, as the guy they hired was an informant, but thats another story.

I believe he was one of the higher ranking sicilian guys in Toronto, and boss of his own family(maybe more of a crew). From what I understand, he was allies with the Rizzutos. After being convicted for the attempted hit on Mike Modica that left an innocent woman paralyzed, I really have no idea how much power Scarcella has left in Toronto. I dont know where he stands with the much larger Siderno group. Word is he fell out of favour with mobsters after the botched hit. There was an attempted hit on him in prison back in 07, and according to this article, he is particularly wary of a Rizzuto connected mobster in the same prison. Not sure who that is, if I had to guess, maybe Joe Bravo. So it seems like Scarcella maybe doesnt have a lot of friends left. Here is that article:

http://www.thestar.com/News/article/202280





Im not sure what to think of the Musitanos. They were also allies with the rizzutos. Some still think the rizzutos were connected to the musitanos taking out John Papalia.

The 2 Musitano kids got out of prison in 07, but I really dont know how active they are. I would think they have plenty of enemies in Ontario, after killing Papalia and reportedly putting out contracts on several Luppinos, a biker, and an unnamed businessman from Woodbridge. But nobody has ever tried to whack them so who know. I believe the Musitano kids are actually seen as wannabes to some people. One of them actually used to do a voice, a gravelly godfather sounding voice. I think this family was a lot more respected before the father passed away in 95.

Even though they are Calabrian, I exclude them from being involved in the plot against the Rizzutos. I just cant see them being part of it. just my opinion though.

I agree. I really wouldnt be surpised if there are Montrealers who were formerly with the Rizzutos, who jumped on board with the plan to take them out. Maybe they feared they could be on the hit parade themselves, or maybe some secretly resented the Rizzuto leadership for years because of money issues or something else, and this was the perfect opportunity. Its all speculation, butI just get the feeling, especially with the lack of retaliation, that a lot of their former friends have abandoned the Rizzutos.

Then of course there are also street gangs that could be involved, being paid to cary out firebombings and other attacks. Im pretty sure it was actually a black guy that killed Nick jr. Who knows to what extent they are involved.

How do you know that would really happen?

Calabrians most likely, but I doubt it are actually 'Ndrangheta groups from Toronto. Making a move to Montreal could bring serious complications for them; pressure from law enforcement, street gangs and other competitors like the West End gang, biker gangs with whom they need to form working agreements. It would take time and effort to establish a powerbase which probably isn't worth it. Things are going pretty well for them now in Toronto, why take unnecessary risks?

I'm highly interested in this whole situation and I follow it closely from the beginning. I think I've read every news article that's written about it and followed the debate about this on the real deal forum. From what I understand this is comming from Calabrians in Hamilton and Granby; Violi/Luppinos and 'D Amico's with the backing from 'Ndrangheta cells from Toronto and Calabrians within Montreal. There's a striking comparison with the Rizzutos take-over in the 1970s.

It apparantly started with a dispute between certain Rizzuto members and the 'D Amico clan from Grandby revolving around the refusal to pay depts, which set in motion a series of kidnappings. The 'D Amicos probably reached out to other Calabrians including Paolo Violi's sons, Domenico and Giuseppe, who took advantage of the situation by planning the retribution of the murder of their father, Paolo Violi. But I don't think they can just walk in and take over. It probably is the old Cotroni faction who are actually responsible for performing the take-over, probably hiring Calabrian contract killers from Toronto or Italy to do the dirty work. I think it's likely they got permission and the backing from 'Ndrangheta groups in Toronto.

This is my theory at least...

I don't. But Italy wants him and, after he serves his time here, I don't see any reason why the U.S. or Canada wouldn't be more than happy to send him there.

Who knows what compromises Rizzuto and his lawyer made with US prosecutors. Would Rizzuto have made that deal with them if he knew for certain that after his 12 sentence he would be deported to Italy to face new allegations?

Also, the Italian political system is pretty corrupt. Maybe Rizzuto has some friends in high places. I wouldn't be suprised in the least...

Do we know how many members are in the Rizzuto Family?

They went as far as issuing an arrest warrant from Rome, Sonny. Whether he cuts some sort of plea or not, some authorities in Italy seems to want to catch up with Rizzuto.

See IMHO, just because the Italian government has a history of corruption doesn't mean it is inherently "corrupt". In fact, I believe in many ways the Italian government is going further then it ever has before in targeting the mafia these days.

And Caramela, Lamoth and Humphries have claimed there are
"hundreds" but they dont always differentiate between soldier and associate and its unlikely there's that many made guys.

The thing is, the "core" of the Rizzuto Family is based around pretty much a handful or so actual blood and marriage relatives. An estimate of the made guys they muster between them alone would be about 40-50. There's other Families in Montreal, that were said to kowtow to the Rizzuto's, maybe you could double that figure of made guys, maybe even triple but thats a generous estimate IMO.

There are easily hundreds of associates though, which is of course where they get their strength. And as I think it was Lilo who put it once "I dont think the guy getting shook down cares whether or not the thug in his face has his mob Varsity letter".

I think Lamoth and Humphries assumed that because there were so many clans operating in Canada, the Rizzuto's were connected to alot more of them then actually were. Sixth Family is a great read, but it came out before all the recent drama's had really begun; Vito had just been jailed on the cusp of its release.

...funny thing is that you said it like in no-biggie.
Man, what you just wrote is huge.

I have family in GTA and we discussed this too.

Thanks for sharing it.