Did Gerlando really have to die for what he said about newly appointed Capo Graziano? This murder really f-up Massino and didn't it break the ties from the Rizzuto family in Montreal which was stupid severing this tie for the Rizzuto's control Canada and as a whole they are bigger then the Bonnano family and make more money as a whole. I know Massino promoted Graziano and it looked like Sciascia was disrespecting his decision because Graziano had a coke problem. But if it were true we see Massino giving the order to kill one Bonnano guy for having a bad drug problem in the past. I know I need to check out the Sixth Family book on the Rizzuto's was there any retaliation from them on the Bonnano's for this act and later Massino implicating Rizzuto as one of the gunmen for the deaths of the 3 Capo's.

i dont think they pretty much cared because gerlando was already deported back to the us by then and he wasnt a member of the rizzuto family he was just some kind of an ambassador for the bonanno's who fled the US because he was indicted for heroin trafficking.

I asked because, I read Massino asked Sciascia if his loyalty was with Bonnano or Rizzuto as well as his crew he ran in Montreal.

The Rizzuto's didn't make more money as a whole than the Bannano family, not even close. Where are you getting that from? Don't believe everything you read man. Lee Lamothe totally exaggerates and fabricated the Rizzuto's power and influence in his book "the 6th family".

If they were so powerful and influential then why did they do nothing when George from Canada got popped? Vitale even came to Montreal and was on Rizzuto territory after the Sciascia hit and they didn't retaliate because they would have been whipped off the face of the earth much what like is being done now.


Lamothe always likes to mention the Rizzuto's Sicilian connections like they are the only mobsters with roots in Sicily. It's as though he thinks the other members are German/Irish and forgets more than half the other Bannano's have Sicilian connections.

See I hear what you're saying Mussolini, as far as some exxagerated claims on the part of Lamoth and Humphries, but I disagree with a few of your points.

I think there was some "retaliation" for Sciascia, although nothing as overt as a retaliatory hit. Its around this time that the Rizzuto "crews" completely stopped kicking up. And I actually think there's more going on here then Massino knows about. "George from Canada" was pretty much just the Rizzuto's smack off-loader in NY, sure, but like LoPresti before him, there's something squalid going on IMO. There's still some Sciascia's around in Canada.

Vitale talked about how nonchalant and indifferent Vito seemed towards any "official" Bonanno affiliations at that point, apparently brushing off suggestions that he be properly bumped up and recognised as a captain. "We have our own little thing going up here", or something to that effect.

Its the figures too. There's too many earners across too wide a space. Too many assets being seized. Who cares if they're officially "made" or not, as long as they're kicking up right?

And the Straights of Messina thing, that was a seven odd-million dollar bid the front comapany put up. As straight up capital from one venture,one bid, those figures aren't bad. The C.untrera/Carauna family go way back in Sicily as well; there's a reason they're referred to as the "Rothschilds of the mafia".




The Sicilian connection they (Lamoth & Humphries) concentrate on is how all the families, the Rizzuto's, Renda's, Sciascia's, LoPresti's, etc. came from Cattolica Eraclea, northwest of Agrigento. And also how the Sicilian/Calabrian factionalism in Montreal goes way back.

The Rizzuto's are basically drug dealers - they built a fortune on heroin and parlayed it into a cottage industry for them and their own. I totally believe that the Rizzuto "crew" made shitloads more then the average NY Bonanno rackets rackets. In part the Bonanno's have always been made up of heroin dealers. In a large part, said heroin dealers bought a lot of heroin of the Rizzuto's. So did alot of other people. And they used that to buy the string of businesses they're involved with.

Anyway, there's a reason for why up till recently Vito, his dad, sons and the rest of them all lived million dollar homes all on the same street. Everytime one of them had to go to court, the Rizzuto family (sanguinary) would start kicking in, in drips and drabs, few thou here couple more there...until there was a pretty respectable "defense fund" of sometimes tens, sometimes hundreds of thousands of dollars. And remarkably few guys flippng up there. Shit, whaddya gonna do but cop a plea when an NY boss points the finger at you?

BUT...they were really as strong and united as Lamoth and Humphries would have us believe, then their "hundreds of made guys" would be screaming for the blood of Nick Rizzuto's killers. Between the indictments, the strings of firebombing's against connected bars and the cold calculated murder of so many key guys, its obvious there are at least a few different elements making power plays.

Do you guys have any ideas/theories who is bumping off the Rizzuto family? I was wondering if it was the Bonnano's inretaliation for Rizzuto's cutting off connection with them. Then, I thought the Bonnano's would have made moves sooner. Do you think its a internal power struggle? Its crazy to see soldiers and higher ups getting killed one by one and no clues to what is happening exactly.

who knows, but in my opinion I don't see any of the Bonannos on the street now playing the role of International Hit Man. They're made up of fat crooks from Staten Island who probably couldn't point out Montreal on a map. I honestly don't think they have the resources now to make the situation going on with the Rizzutos happen

well massino said he whacked george cause george killed the son of a mde guy in canada he never said who though

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/137274/20110422/massino-basciano-cirillo.htm

"When the New York Mafia had an internal power struggle 23 years ago, they turned to Montreal mobsters to solve it.

A New York mobster says Montrealers could be counted on to go down there, do the job right and then follow the Mafia code of silence.

But someone - not a Montrealer - did not keep quiet about it.

And that is why local mobster Vito Rizzuto is facing serious charges in an old triple murder in the powerful New York Bonanno crime family.

Evidence about Rizzuto's role in the 1981 killings came out in U.S. courts this year when a high-ranking member of the Bonanno family turned informant.

And Sale Vitale pointed the finger directly at Rizzuto as well as others from this city.

"Was someone designated as the lead shooter?" a prosecutor asked the informant.

"Vito and Emmanuel," Vitale replied.

Rizzuto was 35 at the time. Now, he's 58 and awaiting word at the Rivieres des Prairies detention centre on whether he will be extradited to the U.S. to face a racketeering trial for the murders. Justice Minister Irwin Cotler is expected to make a decision by Dec. 10, although the date is not set in stone.

The story behind Rizzuto's role in the N.Y. killings comes from court transcripts obtained by The Gazette.

Vitale was able to describe the ambush at a Brooklyn social club in minute detail. In 1981, Phil Rastelli was the official boss of the Bonanno family. He was behind bars but about to be released.

Joseph Massino, then a captain, was loyal to the man and wanted to protect Rastelli from a faction in the Bonanno family that considered him a weak leader.

Vitale said the issue was brought up to "the commission" - the heads of all the major New York crime families. They ruled it should be sorted out peacefully.

Soon afterward, a friend of Massino warned him the captains disloyal to Rastelli were stocking up on automatic weapons.

Vitale said Massino met for a second time with the heads of the Gambino and Colombo crime families and advised them of the growing threat to Rastelli's life.

"(Massino) told me they said you have to defend yourself. Do what you have to do," Vitale said when asked what he knew of the meeting.

Given the green light to use violence, Massino meticulously plotted the ambush of Alphonse (Sonny Red) Indelicato, Dominick (Big Trin) Trinchera and Philip (Phil Lucky) Giaccone.

He called an "administrative meeting" where the three disloyal captains would be gunned down in front of other Bonanno captains.

"You have to show up. You are a captain," Vitale said of the meetings.

Vitale said Massino planned the ambush down to the last detail, including the disposal of the bodies. A group of Mafia soldiers loyal to Massino was assigned the task of placing the bodies on drop cloths and into a van while others were assigned to clean up the bloody mess left behind.

At least one other Mafioso loyal to Rastelli, Dominick Napolitano, wanted to have his input. He proposed an underling of his named Donnie Brasco take part so he could become a made member of the family.

What Napolitano did not know was that Brasco was actually undercover FBI agent Joe Pistone.

But, Vitale testified, Massino was not interested in Brasco. He wanted Canadians to be brought in to do most of the dirty work.

"Was there any discussion where the shooters, why some of the shooters were from Canada?" prosecutor Greg Andres asked Vitale.

"Because of a security issue. It would never leak out. And after the murders, they would go back to Montreal," Vitale answered.

The former Bonanno underboss was asked if he knew who the shooters would be before the ambush took place.

"Vito Rizzuto, a man named Emmanuel, an old-timer and myself," Vitale said.

"Do you know where Vito Rizzuto was from?" Andres asked.

"Montreal, Canada."

"How about Emmanuel?"

"I believe from Montreal also."

The men known only to Vitale as Emmanuel and "the old-timer" have never been identified by authorities.

Another alleged Montreal connection to come out of the trial involved a now-dead captain in the Bonanno family named Gerlando Sciascia.

Vitale testified Sciascia, known as "George from Canada" by his associates in New York, played a key role in the murders. Sciascia was murdered in Brooklyn in 1999. But before that, he lived in Montreal during the 1980s and 1990s under an alias.

In the hours that preceded the ambush, Sciascia was taken to a bakery the mobsters used as a hangout and introduced to the other men.

Then Vitale drove to the social club with Sciascia. Once they arrived, Vitale testified, he saw Rizzuto and the two other Canadian men being issued firearms.

"The minute I walked into the club, in the foyer, Vito, Emmanuel and the old-timer, we were issued the weapons, told to have ski masks that we'd put (on) in a closet in a coat room and before we come out,"

Vitale said.

"What was the purpose of the ski masks?" the prosecutor asked.

"I have no idea. I guess, so the other captains that were there wouldn't know who the shooters were," Vitale said.

As Vitale was preparing his firearm for the ambush, his machine gun went off by accident, firing five bullets into a wall of the social club.

"Joe Massino said, 'Don't shoot unless you have to because I don't want bullets flying all over the place,' " Vitale said.

He and the Canadian man he referred to as "old-timer" were told to burst out of the closet and guard an exit door, to ensure none of the three targets escaped.

Vitale said Rizzuto and the man he knew as Emmanuel were armed with pistols. The "old-timer" - described by Vitale as an elderly gentleman with silver-grey hair - was armed with a sawed-off shotgun.

Vitale testified Sciascia acted as a lookout, making sure all three captains showed up. Massino gave strict orders that the ambush would be called off if all three didn't show.

The trio were spotted and Sciascia gave the shooters the signal.

"When George put his hand through his (hair), we - being me, Vito, Emmanuel and the old-timer - exited the closet," Vitale said.

"Vito entered the room with Emmanuel while me and the old-timer guarded the exit door.

"I heard Vito say, 'Don't anybody move. This is a holdup.' And then shots were being fired.

"I seen Vito shoot. I don't know who he hit. I see Joseph Massino punch Philly Lucky. I froze for five seconds on one knee.

"Sonny Red, the shotgun went off. He fell between me and the old-timer, fell to my left, laying in the foyer.

"I seen (Sciascia) reach in the back, pull out a gun and shoot him on the left side of the head. By that time, it was all over."

Vitale was testifying at Massino's trial. Massino was convicted in July on 11 racketeering counts that included his orchestration of the three murders.

pcherry@thegazette.canwest.com

- - -

Postscript to the New York killings

Despite showing his loyalty to Massino in 1981, Gerlando Sciascia is believed to have been murdered on Joseph Massino's orders 18 years later.

Sale Vitale testified he travelled to Canada three years ago on Massino's request. The purpose of the trip was in part to see how Vito Rizzuto was reacting to Sciascia's murder.

Vitale testified he was supposed to feel Rizzuto out about officially taking over Sciascia's association to the Bonanno family.

He said Sciascia sat on a special committee put in place years ago when Massino was behind bars. The Bonanno family decided to keep the committee intact after Massino was released in 1992.

"You put a committee - and that committee would hear the men's beef and report back to Mr. Massino," Vitale said, adding he brought up the subject of replacing Sciascia but Rizzuto dodged the question.

"I asked him who do the men respect, who could be a good captain? He says, 'My father,' and that isn't the way to go. We wanted him to take the position and he avoided the question, and I felt it best to leave it alone."

Rizzuto's father is Nicolo Rizzuto, an 80-year-old Montrealer alleged to hold as much sway as his son in Canada's underworld.

Despite rejecting the offer, Vito Rizzuto still holds the title of "acting capo regime" in the Bonanno family and "controls Canada" for the organized crime group, Vitale added.

- - -

And don't forget the driving case

Vito Rizzuto has been behind bars since his arrest in January, waiting for a decision whether to extradite him to the U.S.

Meanwhile, he has a drunk-driving case outstanding.

His lawyer yesterday asked municipal court Judge Louise Baribeau to postpone the impaired-driving case until Jan. 12 while his other legal problems are sorted out. The request was granted. "

http://www.tribemagazine.com/board/polit...ng-witness.html

Inside the Bonanno crime family, gangster Vincent (Vinny Gorgeous) Basciano was viewed with disdain by some of his peers as a John Gotti wanna-be and a dangerous "Mad Hatter" capable of anything, a mob turncoat testified yesterday.

Former underboss Salvatore Vitale recalled that two capos from the Bonannos' crew in Montreal had serious reservations about Basciano, 47.

"Vinny's another John Gotti, he has illusions of grandeur," Gerlando (George from Canada) Sciascia complained, according to Vitale. Vito Rizzuto, another north-of-the-border wiseguy, went as far as to say, "Tell Vinny to stay out of Canada," Vitale recalled, although he never learned the reason for the ban.

Vitale said former boss Joseph Massino wanted to keep a close eye on Basciano after learning that he had fatally shotgunned a man in the Bronx without permission from superiors.

Basciano is on trial for murdering Frank Santoro in February 2001 outside his Throgs Neck, Bronx, home because he allegedly threatened to kidnap Basciano's son.

On cross-examination, Vitale acknowledged that he had no "personal knowledge" that Basciano had killed Santoro.

The two gangsters were not close, but Vitale said he presided over Basciano's mob induction ceremony around 1990, and several years earlier they split $120,000 in winnings from an Atlantic City casino.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime...l#ixzz1XgLKRegX

check this out i just found out, seems maybe vinny basciano might have been the shooter/ordered the official hit on george

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:LBrM5aJU1_4J:www.levittandkaizer.com/upload/DEFILIPPO%2520BRIEF%2520FINAL.pdf+rizzuto+vitale+basciano&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESgnWj0prY7f33rkqXC444qcSksNJqDq0d_XUTTQ_xBMemgOe073e3kaH6GD7X_x2QCVjjXpy2ryvgw9muvY2LQhJD_jyBdVGlXScioya_aIJonJkJ7imf7UdTrWsAzcl1OwYGx0&sig=AHIEtbQhlETQrGZazmp6A7HZuYLreIxVDw

Dapper Don that was great its funny to see how back and fourth they put the blame on for the murder of Sciascia. Also so many different reasons why Sciascia was murdered. It does show he was very vocal about his opinion on certain Bonanno members.

Well if someone as connected as you doesn't know of any Bannano's capable of an international hit, I'm sure there aren't any.

I guess you have never heard of Sal Montagna eh?


Controlling the Montreal ports means tens of millions of dollars and despite the mafia not being as powerful as they once were, they are still considered by the FBI to be the most powerful crime syndicate in America and I think it's very naive to think one of the 3 biggest crime families wouldn't have the resources to have hits carried out in a city 6 hours away.

Where exactly are you getting your information from? The Bonanno family certainly does not "control" the Montreal ports, and they are not "considered by the FBI to be the most powerful crime syndicate in America" dude. No way they're even in the top three at this point. Lucky if they're in the top ten.

And there's no evidence that links Sal the Ironworker to whats going on with the Rizzuto's. The Bonanno's and Montreal are pretty much done with each other and have been for some time. Beyond the heroin they used to buy from them, there's really not much in common between the Bonanno's Zip faction and the Sicilian Rizzuto family "Zips". I dont believe present-day Bonanno higer up's give a fuck about whats going on up in Canada, not enough to orchestrate it all at least.

All the evidence seems to point towards a number of different factions/elements making their own power plays with Vito out of the picture for now.

I didn't say the Bonanno's were the most powerful, nor did I say they controlled the ports. I said the Mafia was the most powerful crime syndicate and that possibly Sal was behind the killings in order to gain control of the ports, never did I say they presently controlled them. No one knows who is behind the Montreal killings, not even you so don't act like you are privy to some info that no one else knows. And the bodies started dropping a few months after Sal was deported to Montreal and I don't believe he is retired like he claims but if you want to think it a stretch that an Underboss as ruthless as Sal would never make a move like that, that's your business but at this point no one knows and I wouldn't doubt he is playing a role in it. Also the Bannano's are the 3rd biggest family. perhaps the Luchesse have more power but at worst the Bananno's are 4th. Don't try and tell me the Columbo's or Decavalcantes have more power than the Bananno's. Lucky to be top 10? So you really believe Philly, NE, Chicago, all of whom have a fraction of the members are more powerful than the Bananno's?

Not true. Sam Fasulo, a Rizzuto drug trafficker was killed in January of 09. Mario Marabella, another guy with Rizzuto ties, was kidnapped off the streets in December of 08 and hasnt been seen since. Sal Montagna didnt arrive in Montreal until April of 09.

I have a hard time believing the Bonanno theory on this one, especially considering that law enforcement in Canada seem to believe its people from Hamilton(Violis kids and Luppinos) and perhaps Toronto as well, working with the Montreal Calabrian faction(younger Cotronis). They strongly believe that the order to kill Nic Sr. came from Hamilton. And they at least have something to base that on i.e The Violi kids being seen in Montreal not long before the Nic Rizzuto killing, or cars with Quebec plates being seen at the Violi home in Hamilton leading up to that shooting. Not to mention the striking similarity in Nic Sr.s killing and the killing of Rocco Violi back in 1980.

The only link to the Bonannos is Sal, and I find it very hard to believe that the Bonannos master plan was that Montagna would get deported from the US, at which point he would singlehandedly take over Montreal because the Bonannos decided after nearly 10 years that they want their tribute money back. To me if the Bonannos were going to do this, it would have been done with or without Sals deportation. To me, Sal moving to Montreal is completely irrelevant. He had a choice, either Canada or Italy. Thats a very easy decision. Just my opinion though. And the Bonannos will never control the Montreal ports. The Rizzutos didnt even control the ports, so how would killing a bunch of them get control of the ports for the Bonannos?

Tha mafia is not the "most powerful" criminal organization n America any more. Especially not the Bonanno Family.

Dont get so defensive dude. Its just too easy to assume that because Sal got deported to Montreal (and because he's Sicilian) he must in some way be involved. Like Mick2010 stated, thats just grasping at straws.

Well according to the FBI the mafia is still the most powerful crime syndicate in America as of 2011, but I guess we should take the word of a random guy from Australia over the FBI right? I'm sure you know more about which organization is the foremost threat to America than the FBI does.

Here is a quote from the official FBI website

"La Cosa Nostra is the foremost organized criminal threat to American society. Literally translated into English it means “this thing of ours.” It is a nationwide alliance of criminals—linked by blood ties or through conspiracy—dedicated to pursuing crime and protecting its members."


http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/organizedcrime/italian_mafia

Not to sound like a doosh but how can you think the Bannano's are lucky to be in the top 10 most powerful mafia families in the US, like you said in your post? I'm not expert but I sure know that no one outside of NY can compare to any one of the 5 families in terms of size and power.

Also let's say Sal isn't involved at all in the Rizzuto coup, do you really think he is retired? Do you think he will try and set something up ?

WTF? I know and have read the page you linked you. It does not at all back up your claims. Do you even now how to use references? In fact, if anything the page you cited backs up the claims that its the mainland Itlalian mafia's that are making the most serious money these days. And even it is inaccurate. Most anti-mafia investigators and scholars in Italy agree that the modern day crimial cosca's evolved in last few hundred years, not "3000 years ago".

And you're splitting hairs now. Sure, the Bonanno family might be in the top handful of "most powerful" mob families, but the mafia is not the most powerful criminal threat in the States. Staistics speak for themselves; it doesn't matter if I live in Australia or Timbuktu.

Amongst the most historied and entrenched? Okay. Amongst the most organised. Sure. Amongst the most powerful in NY and where they still have decent presence? Definitely. But these days, the most powerful? You're living in the 50's dude.

For the record, Im not denying that the Bonanno family is amongst the still viable LCN families remaining. But as far as all actual criminal enterprises and syndicates operating in the US, yeah I think its a stretch. The Genovese, maybe, but not the Bonanno's.

BTW, its "douche" not "doosh", and "Bonanno" not "Bannano's".

It totally backs up my claims man. I thought they spoke and read English in Australia?

Hope this helps

Main Entry: foremost
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: first in rank, order
Synonyms: A-1, A-number-1, arch, at the cutting edge, at the leading edge, champion, chief, front, head, headmost, heavy, heavy stuff, heavyweight, highest, hot stuff, hotdog, hotshot, inaugural, initial, leading, most important, number one, original, paramount, preeminent, premier, primary, prime, primo, principal, supreme
Antonyms: inferior, last, least, lowest, secondary, unimportant


Why even argue man? THE FBI CLAIMS THEM TO THE FOREMOST THREAT TO AMERICA. The FBI employs the best anti-mafia investigators in the world and on their own website the claim cosa nostra to be the number 1 threat. They also talk about biker gangs, Cartels, MS13 ect and while they state these other groups are powerful, they clearly state Cosa Nostra as being the foremost threat. And you are absolutely right, it doesn't matter where you are from or who your references are because the FBI is the worlds foremost authority on the subject and they clearly state Cosa Nostra as being the number one threat to America.

They are probably lying though right? I mean the FBI probably doesn't know what they are talking about and you and your sources are far more accurate than any info the FBI has. LMAO.




BTW, it's clearly a sign you have a strong argument when you have to resort to pointing out spelling and grammar errors. LMAO

we can say that cosa nostra is still the most powerful organization in the states as a single entity
other gangs have not a national body even mexican cartels have not a so strong presence they sell drugs to gangs, bikers etc. but they have not a strong presence in american cities

If you take those sort of generic claims at total face value, Im pretty sure Im not going to be learning much from you. Just look at the figures cited for the mainland syndicates compared to your "national criminal brotherhood". Just because NY is still active doesn't mean that every two-bit connected bookmaker across North America are connected in one big criminal conspiracy.

Its hyperbole. How many times have we heard of an organization referred to as "the country's foremost criminal threat"? Too many times to count.

Ive even re-read my posts, just to make sure I didn't accidentally say that the Bonanno family was not amongst the top LCN familes left. But you're talking criminal syndicates, of which you claim the ominous "mafia" as the most powerful, straight out. Simply not true.

So we agree to disagree.

Yes we will have to agree to disagree,. You are right that different reporters, cops, prosecutors and individual FBI agents have always tried to hype up their cases or stories with exaggerations and bold claims but the only other entity the FBI as a whole has ever claimed to be the number 1 threat other than Cosa Nostra was the Red Communists.

Now since we agree to disagree can you give me your thoughts on Sal Montagna? I'm not saying he is behind the Rizzuto killings but I'm not ready to say he is not playing a part in it either, but for arguments sake lets say he has nothing to do with the Rizzuto killings. Do you really think he is retired? Do you think he will try and get something going in Montreal?

"But you're talking criminal syndicates, of which you claim the ominous "mafia" as the most powerful, straight out. Simply not true."

i think the mafia is the most powerful because i don't see other gangs or cartels or whoever so strong in the states today
mexican cartels are strong in mexico but they are not so strong in the states, not even close to the mafia of even 20 years ago
and the mafia although probably at its weakest seem to be still the most powerful as a single entity
in other words if somebody would ask me which is the most powerful crime organization in the states i would say italian mafia, so to speak

The FBI has traditionally said that about LCN because that's been their investigational jurisdiction. Likewise, the DEA makes the same "organized crime threat" statement about the Mexican drug cartels.

As an organized crime threat, the Mexican poly drug traffickers would be #1 since they dominate the drug trade thoughout the country. But a good case can be made for the LCN still being the most powerful organized crime group within the New York metropolitan area. Probably not elsewhere though.

In NY its a different dynamic, but in general the figures just dont match up to the sheer profits the cartels reap from drugs. The mafia is not a "single entity", but if you want to group just the US LCN as a whole, then the cartels as a whole far definitely outstrip. Understand, alot of these cartels The mainland families are not connected to the North Americans, beyond certain blood links and opportunistic rackets.

I think it's apples and oranges and it's aimless to compare a homegrown syndicate to a government backed cartel.
Mexicans involved in OC have actively shown themselves to be part and parcel govermnet and criminal.........not one and the other but both at the same time. For instance take a group of renegade army soldiers/deserters like the ZETAS. Would you consider them criminal organization? They took an oath saying they would hunt down drug dealers before becoming drug dealers themselves....they changed up because it was beneficial and the money was good. These arent gangsters these are corrupt soldiers/cops/politicians its why Mexico and most other 3rd world countries are in the whole they are in.......corruption.


Italian crime syndicate started in direct defense against the state...not with the state. Their oaths although violated recently withstood 200 plus years without anyone ever even acknowledging they existed. Mexico is a small fry and will go the way of the overhyped----Afghanistan Herion traders/ Russian cybercriminals ( note their no no Russian Mafia) Colombian FARC guerrillas-PLO who were the biggest gun runners of the world and the IRA who trained the most fighters by engaging in organized crime.

Certainly the Mexican government drug cartels are the bigger threat than LCN, even at the height of their power. A more Equal comparison would be Mexican cartels and the Sicilian Mafia under Toto Riina. North Korea should be considered too and 20-30 years ago the biggest threat would have been the Red Army.
Be that as it may, as far as home grown syndicates go like biker gangs, Bloods, Crips, M13, ect I do not doubt LCN to be the biggest threat.

Mexican criminal organizations are not backed up by the government and certainly not one and the same, sure cartels buy off politicians/municipal police/state police/federal police and sometimes army officials but they are not one and the same. There are police officers than join into their ranks but the police and politicians they buy off don't know their whereabouts or activities. Now it's a myth the original Zetas were part of Mexico's elite anti-terror/trafficking unit, most of the deserters were normal Mexican soldiers and were originally hired to be the private bodyguards of Osiel Cardenes in the 90s and from there they grew into their armed wing.

I agree with HermitKermit somehwat, in that as far as homegrown US OC, LCN has got to be up there. But on a transnational scale, US LCN does not even compare.