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Tom Hagen as the Don #608281
07/18/11 12:17 PM
07/18/11 12:17 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 172
I
Immobiliare Offline OP
Made Member
Immobiliare  Offline OP
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Made Member
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 172
How do you think Tom would have fared as the Don?

We all know that Micheal told Tom that he would take over as Don should anything happen to Micheal post lake tahoe shooting but your answers don't necessarily have to take into account these circumstances. Just in general, do you think Tom had it in him to become a good Don? better than Sonny perhaps?

Re: Tom Hagen as the Don [Re: Immobiliare] #608284
07/18/11 12:38 PM
07/18/11 12:38 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,020
Texas
O
olivant Offline
olivant  Offline
O

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,020
Texas
It's hard to figure. As the novel states, Tom wanted to work for Vito and he told Vito that he knew who he was. Well, one infers that he knew that Vito was a murderer and as time went on Tom aided and abetted Vito's (and then Michael's) murder and mayhem. So, obviously, Tom was quite willing to plow the depths of immorality. However, in the role of Don I think that Tom would not have been perceived as strong and unassailable until he did something that would put the underworld on notice that he was a Don in every sense. It was the same with Michael. He had to orchestrate the Don's massacre before Clemenza et al gave him their approbation. Of course, given his legal background, Tom would have probably kept the family out of the limelight and protected it in every legal sense.

Last edited by olivant; 07/18/11 12:40 PM.

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Re: Tom Hagen as the Don [Re: olivant] #608289
07/18/11 01:43 PM
07/18/11 01:43 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,518
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,518
AZ
Tom as Don: "We done this be-FO-wer," as Senator Geary said. lol

As a non-Italian, Tom would have zero credibility with the other Mob families. They would take his ascension to the Donship as a sign of terminal weakness among the Corleones--and an invitation to move in on them. As Oli said, Tom was not reluctant to wallow in the dark side. But, as a lawyer, Tom was a conciliator and negotiator by nature. He didn't have the "personal force" that Puzo wrote about in the novel as being a vital quality for a Don.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Tom Hagen as the Don [Re: Turnbull] #608299
07/18/11 02:05 PM
07/18/11 02:05 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline
Consigliere to the Stars
dontomasso  Offline
Consigliere to the Stars

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
I agree with TB, but it would even be worse than the problem with the other families. Tom would have trouble with the likes of Rocco, Neri, and Pentageli as well.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

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Re: Tom Hagen as the Don [Re: Immobiliare] #608327
07/18/11 07:22 PM
07/18/11 07:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
Lilo Offline
Lilo  Offline

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
I think Tom was a great asset to the Family, both personally/professionally and one which Michael probably didn't use as well or as much as he should have. But Tom was a career number two guy.

Nothing wrong with that but I don't see him having the personal force to lead men or make them go in fear of him. Also I think he lacked the instincts and ability for non-linear thinking which Michael had.


"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives."
Winter is Coming

Now this is the Law of the Jungle—as old and as true as the sky; And the wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the wolf that shall break it must die.
As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk, the Law runneth forward and back; For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.
Re: Tom Hagen as the Don [Re: Immobiliare] #608385
07/19/11 09:42 AM
07/19/11 09:42 AM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 773
Pittsburgh, PA
The Last Woltz Offline
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The Last Woltz  Offline
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 773
Pittsburgh, PA
Agreed with Lilo and TB.

To survive, a Don needs to keep people in line through some combination of fear, loyalty, and the belief that it's in their best interest to work under said Don.

I don't think Tom would install any of those feeling in his subordinates, much less all three.


"A man in my position cannot afford to be made to look ridiculous!"
Re: Tom Hagen as the Don [Re: Immobiliare] #608386
07/19/11 09:43 AM
07/19/11 09:43 AM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 172
I
Immobiliare Offline OP
Made Member
Immobiliare  Offline OP
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Made Member
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 172
Quick question: after Vito died who took over as Micheals consigliere? Did he just abolish the role?

Re: Tom Hagen as the Don [Re: Immobiliare] #608394
07/19/11 10:03 AM
07/19/11 10:03 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,568
Sonny_Black Offline
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Sonny_Black  Offline
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Posts: 3,568
I think Tom would be a great businessman of political figure, not a great Don. TB's post is the most valid argument.

Originally Posted By: Immobiliare
Quick question: after Vito died who took over as Micheals consigliere? Did he just abolish the role?


In Winegardner's novel it's Clemenza and to be honest I think that would be plausible.

In Part II, we later see Tom sort of regaining his former role.


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."

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