As a Godfatherholic there are hardly any days when I don't think at least 5 minutes about antyhing related to The Godfather.

So lately I was thinking about these two characters which we are pretty much kept in the dark about. I always imagined what their exact role would be in The Godfather universe and after some thoughts I could only come to the conclusion that both had to be members of the Corleone family.

In the films it seems that both were initially highly respected by Michael Corleone based on how they were treated.

In Part II we see that Johnny Ola is received with the utmost respect and receives a warm welcome by Michael. We also see that he has men of his own who also seem to be Italian which suggests he had his own crew. This all suggests he had to be a "made man".

Johnny Ola is obviously based on Vincent Alo who was a caporegime in the Genovese crime family and a close associate of Meyer Lansky which we all know is the model for Hyman Roth. It's also obvious that the Corleone family is the fictitious Genovese family in their universe as they are the most powerful in the country with interests in Las Vegas, Miami and Havana.

As the Corleone family controlled at least one hotel in Miami I imagine they probably also had some men there to look after their investments. I therefore think Johnny Ola probably was their man in Florida which explains why he also worked closely with Hyman Roth.

Don Altobello was Connie Corleone's godfather which also strongly suggests he was a member of the Corleone family. In Part III it becomes clear that Joey Zasa was his puppet.

As Zasa was already pretty young for a "boss" in Part III it's obvious he hadn't succeeded Pentangeli directly which leaves a big gap in the years between Part II and III. I therefore think that it was probably Don Altobello who succeeded Pentangeli as boss of the Corleone family in New York. Due to his age in Part III I think he sort of semi-retired in the 1970s and installed Zasa as his successor. However, in reality Zasa would have been some sort of a street boss while Altobello secretly still "pulled the strings".

At least this is my theory about these two characters and I'm curious to how you guys think about it (if you have thought about them at all).

Ofcourse it's fair enough to say that both character were only created to serve their purpose in the movies. Still, it's fun to think about it.

As Pentangeli stated, Ola was Roth's "sicilian messenger boy". But I'm sure he was a capo in a NY or Chicago family assigned to provide muscle for Roth. I see Altobello as a Don (afterall,he was Don Altobello) going way back "as your family's oldest friend". I find no indication that he was a Corleone family member.

As far as Zasa succeeding Pentangeli, there is no Board consensus in what year the events surrounding Pentangeli's demise took place. Since III took place in 1979 or there abouts, it would seem that Zasa was indeed too young to have succeeded Pentangeli as of 1979. However, if we accept that Zasa was easily 40 years old in 1979-80, then we can play with the years and might be able to put Zasa at the Corleone helm in the early 70s if not the late 60s.

He could have been a member of another family. But we only know that Roth was a close associate of the Corleone family for over 30 years. Therefore I would find it a little strange that he would have been a capo in another family assigned to provide Roth with muscle. Afterall, after the murder of the rival heads the Corleone family had full supremacy over New York.

We see Michael treating him very warmly which would have been a little awkward if he would have been a member of a rival family. If he would have been a capo for Chicago than Michael would have taken a big risk by ordering his death.

Meyer Lansky did business with many families but he was never more close with any other family than the Genovese family and Vincent Alo.

Taking all this points into account for me it's the most logical explanation that he must have been a member of the Corleone family.



I agree. There's no clear indication that Altobello was a member of the Corleone crime family. But I don't agree about the "don" thing.

By the 1970s Michael was hardly involved with the criminal faction of the Corleone family. He confirms this when he tells Zasa that he has nothing to do with his business. So it's pretty clear that he had turned over leadership. Sure, he was still considered to be de facto head of the underworld, but that doesn't mean that Altobello couldn't have been a "Don". And besides, he could very well have been adressed as a Don as a sign of respect as he was the 'family's oldest friend' and Connie's godfather.

I find it a little hard to believe that he could have been the boss of the Barzini or Tattaglia family and be Connie Corleone's godfather since the 1920s. We all know the Barzini and Tattaglia family were the Corleone family's biggest rivals...

Just as Roth was Lansky, Ola was Jimmy Blue Eyes (although in real life, Jimmy wasn't the lackey that Ola was portrayed). But, just as Lansky counseled most of the families, so Roth, as described by Ola, "always made money for his partners" [emphasis added]. So, while Vito brought him up in the Mob life, Roth was clearly an independent operator, not a Corleone monopoly.

Altobello may or may not have been in the Corleone family, but if he wasn't, he was damned close to them. I don't think Vito would have selected him to be Connie's godfather otherwise.

I have always believed that Vito was a composite of several Dons, including Profaci (olive oil king), and Bonanno (brings his son into the business). But the one he most closely resembles is Frank Costello, "Prime Minister of the Underworld," who eschewed drugs, dominated gambling and unions, and was the most politically powerful and sophisticated of the Dons.

That's what I think.



I very much agree to Frank Costello. Although Coppola at one point said that Vito could be based on Vito Genovese, Frank Costello is probably the primary model for Vito. Carlo Gambino also. But I don't agree about Joe Bonanno. I really think that argument is weak, because Vito could then also be based on numerous other bosses who wanted their son to succeed him. Bonanno is more of a model for Michael.

Yes TB, Vito is a composite figure. Regarding your comparison of Vito to Costello though keep in mind that Vito's effort to pacify the underworld consumed only a few years of his tenure as Don whereas Costello's efforts spanned a substantial part of his tenure as Don. So, I think that comparison is cursory. However, dominating Vito's entire tenure is his familial relationships. Those relationships most favorably compare with Bonanno's.

Also, I would think that anyone who selects a godparent for their children would select someone with whom they have a close relationship. So, that's a given. As I've stated above, Altobello is the Corleone family's oldest friend. There's no indication, implied or inferred, that he is or was a Corleone family member. And while Don may be a term of respect, in the Trilogy and novel it is not used in any other context except as applied to the head of a crime family. In other words, GFIII does not present Altobello in any subsidiary role.

That's not really true. In Part III, when Michael arrives in Sicily, he adresses the major of Bagheria as "Don Bendino".

Or do you think the man was also a crime boss? He didn't look like one...

I partly agree with Sonny here. Don is originally a term of respect. It comes from the Latin word Dominus (used in old Rome). And that had nothing to do with crime bosses.

But...

As Olivant stated; in the GF movies it's used as a title for a crime boss. To me it's more logic that because of the use of the word Don for the mayor, it's clear that he's also a crime boss. Even if he didn't look like one. Probably we can't clarify that part.

Isn't there anyone else called Don where it's more likely he isn't a crime boss? If that's true I give Sonny's arguments the advantage.

This is the man I'm talking about:

http://godfather.wikia.com/wiki/Bendino

I really don't think he is a crime boss and otherwise it would have been made clear. And besides, Don Tommasino already was the "Don" in this province.

Another example, but maybe not as strong, is Don Fanucci. In Part II and the novel it becomes clear that he wasn't a crime boss but just a loner. People in the Italian neighborhood adressed him as Don out of fear and respect because they thought he was 'connected' to Maranzalla and the Black Hand.

Also, Joey Zasa, who in fact was introduced as the "boss" of the Corleone's criminal faction was not adressed as "Don". That's because he was considered to be a 'small time enforcer' which means he wasn't respected enough to be adressed as "don" while Don Altobello was.

I'm with Sonny now good arguments.

I agree that Ola was more than a "Sicilian Messenger Boy," and that insult only camoe out of Pentangeli's mouth when he was trying to make a point. I think Pentangeli didnt's respect Ola or the power he had because a) he was a competitor who sided with the Rosatos; and b) He was affiliated with ROth, a "Jew in Miami" and not his "own blood."

Yes. Fanucci was accurately portrayed as a type of "Black Hander" common to American urban ethnic neighborhoods in the early 1900's. Those people usually acted alone, or in very small groups, but were able to terrorize local people by cloaking themselves in the mantle of feared organizations in their native lands. Not just Italians--Jews, Irish, Eastern Europeans, too.

Regarding Altobello; Even though he was Connie's GF, he could have been a Don in Sicily. He seemed to have long-time ties to the Sicily characters: Lucchesi and Mosca. He may have had family ties and business ties to Vito; maybe the cannoli business.

That's another plausible theory. More plausible that he was a Don of one of the other New York families (Barzini, Tattaglia, Stracci, Cuneo).

But he should have had more difficulty with speaking 'American'.

Maybe he was just an outsider like Sollozzo...

Well, an outsider would not have been calling a meeting of the Commission and would not have attended a Commission meeting.

Fair enough. So I guess you go with Winegardner that he was the Don of the Tattaglias? The same guys who went after Vito and killed his son... Or the Barzini family who engineerded it all... After all, his daughters lived in Staten Island.

Not only that but the part of the novel that mentions how Fanucci was able to extort money from the people is my favorite line in the book. Something to the effect of:

He was reputed to be of the Black Hand, an offshoot of the Mafia that extorted money through threats of violence. However, since most of the inhabitants of the neighborhood were violent themselves, Fanucci's threats were only listened to by the eldery and those without children.

More sloppiness by Puzo. If Fanucci was such small otatoes, why did it make Vito such a hero for killing him?

Because he still terrorized the neighborhood Vito lived in, and remember he claimed to have a license from Maranzalla to extort money, so my guess is that people who weren't paying him were still probably wary of him, just in case he wasn't full of shit and really did have connections.

Vito became "such a hero" for killing Fanucci mainly because he was the only person (barring the three punks who cut his throat) who stood up the Fanucci instead of just ignoring him, so it showed to the people of the neighborhood that Vito wasn't just some run-of-the-mill Italian immigrant hood.

...and he gained the respect of Clemenza and Tessio, which helped establish him as man to be respected in the neighborhood. What we don't know from the film is what happened between his killing of Fanucci and the scene with Senor Roberto. Obviously a few years passed by. Vito likely built up his reputation as a strong, no nonsense, but benevolent, business man.

I expect this to be covered in the new novel that comes next year. Hopefully we also get to know more about characters like Don Altobello and the rise of Emilio Barzini, Tattaglia etc.

He took over the grocery store of Genco's father and became some kind of olive oil monopolist

To return to the original discussion, I think there could also be a possibily that Don Altobello may have been a member of the Bocchiccio family.

This correlates with his ties to Sicily ("keeping the peace between Palermo and New York" as Don Tommasino stated) and "as the family's oldest friend he was always chosen to bring messages".

In the novel, the Bocchiccios are known as mediators just as Don Altobello appears as one in Part III. It is him who sets up the meeting with the other bosses just as the Bocchiccios organized the meeting of the Dons in Part I.

If he wasn't a member of the Corleone family, the Bocchichios are the only other New York family I could see him being a member of and at the same time being extremely close to the Corleones.

You have fine knowledge of the movies/book Sonny. I like it

Thanks.