He meets with Roth at Roth's house. Then, right after, Michael goes to Pentangeli's place, and tells him he knows now that it was Roth who tried to have him killed.

How exactly did Michael figure that out?


On a related note-similar circumstance...in GF1, when Don Corleone was at the meeting with all the other Dons, how exactly did he figure out it was Barzini all along? What brought him to that conclusion exactly?


Another question: I read somewhere that Tony Sirico (Paulie Walnuts from Sopranos) is in either GF1 or 2, I can't remember which it said. Is he? And if so, who is he in the movie?

VITO CORLEONE : "When -- when did I ever refuse an accommodation? All of you know me here -- when did I ever refuse? -- except one time. And why? Because -- I believe this drug business -- is gonna destroy us in the years to come. I mean, it's not like gambling or liquor -- even women -- which is something that most people want nowadays, and is ah forbidden to them by the pezzonovante of the Church. Even the police departments that've helped us in the past with gambling and other things are gonna refuse to help us when in comes to narcotics. And I believed that -- then -- and I believe that now."


Now instead of Tattaglia responding to Vito, the one who Vito was supposed to have had the differences with, the one that Vito was looking to make the peace with, BARZINI jumps right in and resonds instead of Tattaglia :

BARZINI : "Times have changed. It's not like the Old Days -- when we can do anything we want. A refusal is not the act of a friend. If Don Corleone had all the judges, and the politicians in New York, then he must share them, or let us others use them. He must let us draw the water from the well. Certainly he can -- present a bill for such services; after all -- we are not Communists."

Of course reading it and actually watching the scene, seeing Barzini's reaction makes a big diference. But if Barzini was really acting as the peacemaker here, then he would have never jumped right in to reply to Vito, and not in the manner that he did. Tattaglia would have been the one to reply, and then Barzini would have acted as the moderator, listening to both sides first and then suggesting an agreeable solution. But he instead responded, basically telling Vito how and what should have been done. And at that moment Vito realized that Sonny had been fighting this war all along with Barzini being behind the whole thing from the onset.


Don Cardi

Michael had been horning in on Roth's gambling empire since he returned from Sicily. Roth tricked Michael by pretending that Michael was his heir-apparent--all the while buying time for an attempt on his life. Anthony's party was the perfect opportunity. Roth knew Frankie Pentangeli would be there, contentious over Michael's support of the Rosato brothers against him. So Frankie would have the perfect motivation to kill Michael, and thus would make the perfect fall-guy for the crime.
But the scheme was just a little too pat for a guy with Michael's Sicilian cunning. Michael figured out, right after the shooting, that Frankie was too small-time, too lacking in ambition and imagination, to have gained anything by killing him, considering the risks. But Roth would have the most to gain: eliminating his competitor in the gaming business, putting his allies, the Rosatos, in charge of Michael's NYC operation--and having Pentangeli take the blame. It was perfect for Roth--and Michael saw through it.

Re. Vito and Barzini: In addition to what Don Cardi said, I'd add that Barzini gives himself away by sitting at the head of the table at a meeting that Vito called and nominally chaired. He also (nice touch!) was the only guy smoking a cigarette (the others were puffing on DiNobli's)--a giveaway that he was the modern guy. And, as Vito said, "Tattaglia's a pimp; alone he could never have outfought Santino." The only surprise here is that Vito hadn't figured it out earlier.

Others have said that Tony Sirico appeared in the Trilogy, but I don't recall where.

Good points, thanks guys. I guess it seemed to me anyway that Michael truly realized it was Roth right as he was visiting Roth at his house when they were watching football and stuff. I assumed that Roth said something in particular that Michael then realized that he was the one...

I think Michael was 95 percent sure it was Roth very shortly after the shooting--and well before he called on Roth. I believe he was 100 percent sure after he shouted at Frankie, and Frankie agreed to meet with the Rosato brothers.

Ah okay. So, I'm pretty sure I already know this, but I just want to clarify for myself: When the Rosato brothers were attempting to kill Pentangeli in the bar, when the one came behind him and began strangling him and says "Michael Corleone says hello," that was not true? Michael did not really have them try to kill Pentangeli, so they were just BS'ing Frank?

Many threads have been posted about the famous "Michael Corleone says hello" line. Danny Aiello, who played Tony Rosato, in a later interview, admitted that he'd ad-libbed the line. So why did FFC let it stay in the film--to the consternation of many here? I believe that Roth, not Michael, ordered the Rosatos to kill Pentangeli. The Rosatos intended to kill Frankie. The cop entering was a pure coincidence.

The famous line was uttered for the benefit of Richie, the bartender whose place was used for the attempted murder. Richie was obviously a civilian, not a Mafia guy ("Carmine--NO! NOT HERE!" he shouts as Carmine Rosato prepares to shoot the cop who enters). The Rosatos knew the cops would question Richie, and he might crack. Richie would never identify the Rosatos unless he made out a will. So, hearing that famous line, he could tell the cops, "The killer said, 'Michael Corleone says hello.' " That would make the cops suspicious of Michael, not Roth. And the newspapers would pick it up--yet another blow to Michael's "legitimacy."

I have a question: is it sure that Frankie was supposed to be killed? Or was the whole thing an act to crack open Frankie's loyalty and get him to turn against Michael? I've never really been able to make the scene out step-by-step.

Obviously, Danny Aiello was supposed to say SOMETHING there, because otherwise there's no way for either Frankie or the bartender to tie the hit to Michael.

In the book, Fabrizzio's killer says, "Michael Corleone send you his regards." Is that line actually used in the Fabrizzio scene that was edited out of Godfather 2? If not, this would have been a good place to use it, and maybe Aiello just tweaked it a little bit to sound better when spoken.

Exactly what Roth's plan was has also been the subject of a fair amount of speculation here.

Some have suggested that it was Roth's intention to kill Pentangelli, while others believe that it was all a set-up to turn Frankie against Michael and have him do far more damage in the upcoming Senate hearings.

Hagen's later comments to Michael,

"Roth.....He engineered it" and "Roth.....he played this one beautifully"

are kind of cryptic, since they could be meant to suggest that the original plan was was to keep Pentangelli alive and have him turn against Michael, or, that Roth came up with this brilliant alternate plan after the Pentangelli killing was accidentally interrupted.