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Making Threats #590662
01/13/11 02:48 PM
01/13/11 02:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
Lilo Offline OP
Lilo  Offline OP

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
The Don did not like making open threats to people and generally did so only as a last resort or when he felt the situation was personal (the bandleader story). Evidently he trained Tom and Sonny and Michael to follow in his footsteps in that regard.

Tom points out to Woltz that he hasn't threatened him and thinks to himself that the Don taught him that way. Even after Sonny loses his temper and beats Carlo and threatens to kill him it is explained that if Sonny really meant to do murder he never would have said so. Michael remains calm in the face of Green's insults and implied threats and makes no counter threats. Though he could coerce Jules' or Lucy's help as front people in Vegas he doesn't do so.

The Don is said to constantly be reminding Sonny of the foolishness of expressing anger. When talking to Michael about the utility of someone like Luca, he speaks dismissively of Luca's tendencies towards rage.

Why did the Don feel so strongly about this? Was it the experience of seeing his (presumably) rash father and brother murdered? Was it just good business sense? Was it because once you make a threat you may have to follow through or lose face?


"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives."
Winter is Coming

Now this is the Law of the Jungle—as old and as true as the sky; And the wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the wolf that shall break it must die.
As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk, the Law runneth forward and back; For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.
Re: Making Threats [Re: Lilo] #590671
01/13/11 03:50 PM
01/13/11 03:50 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
pizzaboy Offline
The Fuckin Doctor
pizzaboy  Offline
The Fuckin Doctor

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Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
I think Vito just realized that threats are usually empty, and that actions speak louder than words. And although wiretaps and listening devices were almost unheard of in the '40s, it's always better to not incriminate yourself if you can help it.


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: Making Threats [Re: pizzaboy] #590677
01/13/11 04:11 PM
01/13/11 04:11 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,019
Texas
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olivant Offline
olivant  Offline
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Texas
Lilo, the novel states that, indeed, it was his father's murder (that followed upon the heels of his being so verbose with the local mafia chief) that prompted Vito's avoidance of quarrels, threats, etc. It also states that Vito taught Tom to never threaten, to reason only.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Making Threats [Re: olivant] #590680
01/13/11 04:14 PM
01/13/11 04:14 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,272
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Mark Offline
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Mark  Offline
M
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Posts: 3,272
In general, isn't losing one's temper in public perceived as a sign of weakness?

Re: Making Threats [Re: Mark] #590692
01/13/11 05:20 PM
01/13/11 05:20 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,989
getthesenets Offline
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getthesenets  Offline
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Think being calm in the face of confrontation is in Vito's nature.

There is story in the novel about Vito working somewhere with Irish workers and them heaping ALL kinds of verbal abuse at him daily, and Vito pretending to not understand what they were saying and just calmly finishing his job.

I think his "management style" of never making a threat developed as he ascended in the underworld and dealt with others who were hot headed by nature or felt that making threats helped them achieve whatever they were trying to get done.

He saw the error of using such tactics,and being a businessman on top of everything, he always sought a way to RESOLVE issues or disputes in as constructive a manner as possible.

He might have arrived at the conclusion somewhere in his criminal life that it was his father's hot heat that lead to his demise, but he surely wasn't old enough at the time to understand that.

Re: Making Threats [Re: Lilo] #590743
01/14/11 08:33 AM
01/14/11 08:33 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,718
Berlin, Germany
Danito Offline
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Danito  Offline
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Berlin, Germany
Original geschrieben von: Lilo
Tom points out to Woltz that he hasn't threatened him and thinks to himself that the Don taught him that way.


Tom doesn't threaten Woltz openly, but in fact he does: He's talking about labor trouble and a film star using heroin.
Woltz hits the nail on the point: “I understood perfectly,” he said. “That’s the Mafia style, isn’t is?"

Their style is to let their opponent not lose their face.

Re: Making Threats [Re: Danito] #590778
01/14/11 06:28 PM
01/14/11 06:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
Lilo Offline OP
Lilo  Offline OP

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
That wasn't a threat. That was a friendly offer of assistance to correct a possible issue. rolleyes

But you're dead on about giving the other guy a way to climb down from a hard position without losing face. Win-win situation for everyone.


"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives."
Winter is Coming

Now this is the Law of the Jungle—as old and as true as the sky; And the wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the wolf that shall break it must die.
As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk, the Law runneth forward and back; For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.
Re: Making Threats [Re: Lilo] #590812
01/15/11 06:46 AM
01/15/11 06:46 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 20
NY (upstate)
Kuklinski Offline
Wiseguy
Kuklinski  Offline
Wiseguy
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Posts: 20
NY (upstate)
Originally Posted By: Lilo




The Don is said to constantly be reminding Sonny of the foolishness of expressing anger. When talking to Michael about the utility of someone like Luca, he speaks dismissively of Luca's tendencies towards rage.



He didn't even want to see Luca privately at the wedding. But was sure to call him his "most valued friend" when they did meet briefly.


“I never lie because I don't fear anyone. You only lie when you're afraid.” ~John Gotti
Re: Making Threats [Re: Kuklinski] #590814
01/15/11 06:53 AM
01/15/11 06:53 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,718
Berlin, Germany
Danito Offline
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Danito  Offline
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Berlin, Germany
Original geschrieben von: Kuklinski
He didn't even want to see Luca privately at the wedding. But was sure to call him his "most valued friend" when they did meet briefly.

He knew how to handle the bulldog.

Re: Making Threats [Re: Danito] #590873
01/15/11 10:38 PM
01/15/11 10:38 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,019
Texas
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olivant Offline
olivant  Offline
O

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,019
Texas
Originally Posted By: Danito
Originally Posted By: Kuklinski
He didn't even want to see Luca privately at the wedding. But was sure to call him his "most valued friend" when they did meet briefly.

He knew how to handle the bulldog.


As the novel states, Luca was the only one who could make Vito nervous.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Making Threats [Re: olivant] #591988
01/24/11 03:07 PM
01/24/11 03:07 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,513
AZ
Turnbull Offline
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,513
AZ
Another reason Puzo stated was that Vito wanted his enemies to underestimate him, the better for them to be incautious. Vito's not answering threats, insults, bullying, etc., by others would have the effect of making them let their guard down.

And speaking of making threats:
Michael obviously hadn't learned from his father when he was holed up in Sicily. He tells Sr. Vitale who he is, what he's doing there, and then says that some people would pay a lot for that info but then his daughter would lose a father instead of gaining a husband. Not too swift...


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Making Threats [Re: Turnbull] #592052
01/24/11 07:00 PM
01/24/11 07:00 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238
The Ravenite Social Club
Don Cardi Offline
Caporegime
Don Cardi  Offline
Caporegime

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Posts: 18,238
The Ravenite Social Club
Originally Posted By: Turnbull

And speaking of making threats:
Michael obviously hadn't learned from his father when he was holed up in Sicily. He tells Sr. Vitale who he is, what he's doing there, and then says that some people would pay a lot for that info but then his daughter would lose a father instead of gaining a husband. Not too swift...



Chalk it up to his inexperience TB. lol wink

Seriously though, you are right. And his boasting that info to Vitelli only supports my post over in the GF Trilogy pertaining to how Michael sat there and bragged to Kay about the power that his father and his family had. Again, as far as I am concerned that line to Kay, (paraphrasing) "It's my family Kay, it's not me" is a bunch of bullshit. I firmly believe that while wanting to be his own man, deep down there was something in Michael that aroused him in knowing how powerful his father was and how if he chose to he could one day wield that same power!



Don Cardi cool

Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.





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