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Why did Cicci testify? #588611
12/18/10 02:53 AM
12/18/10 02:53 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 840
BarrettM Offline OP
Underboss
BarrettM  Offline OP
Underboss
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 840
There should have been some kind of obvious motive. Of course, he had very little character development, but I feel we were owed an explanation. I'm not going to plot out all his scenes and dialogue throughout the first two films, I don't want to put any thoughts into anyone's head. Because my recollection is hazy and I would probably be putting false thoughts into your heads! Throw out some points, let's get started.

Just one notion though. He understood Omerta. Why would he take the risk?

Re: Why did Cicci testify? [Re: BarrettM] #588614
12/18/10 06:45 AM
12/18/10 06:45 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
Lilo Offline
Lilo  Offline

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
I think for the same reason that Pentangeli intended to. As far as they knew their ultimate boss had thrown them overboard. Facing charges for the shootout and being rather peeved at the "betrayal" it probably wouldn't have taken much to get Cicci to turn.


"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives."
Winter is Coming

Now this is the Law of the Jungle—as old and as true as the sky; And the wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the wolf that shall break it must die.
As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk, the Law runneth forward and back; For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.
Re: Why did Cicci testify? [Re: Lilo] #588623
12/18/10 11:07 AM
12/18/10 11:07 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,020
Texas
O
olivant Offline
olivant  Offline
O

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,020
Texas
Cicci was caught in a gunfight during which at least a couple of cops were shot. The Feds would have jumped right on that and squeezed Cicci since he was facing any number of "decades" in prison. Besides, he would have known that Mike wanted Frankie to settle things with the Rosatos which would have made Cicci feel quite insecure about Mike.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Why did Cicci testify? [Re: olivant] #588640
12/18/10 01:14 PM
12/18/10 01:14 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,518
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,518
AZ
In addition to the excellent points Lilo and Olivant made:

The Senate committee deliberately set up Michael by keeping Pentangeli's survival secret. So, they probably went overboard in sweetening a deal to get Cicci to testify, so that Michael would be convinced that Cicci was the only witness against him--and Cicci testified that he never got a direct order from Michael. That was the setup.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Why did Cicci testify? [Re: Turnbull] #588658
12/18/10 03:27 PM
12/18/10 03:27 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 17,300
New York
Sicilian Babe Offline
Sicilian Babe  Offline

Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 17,300
New York
Cicci had nothing to lose, did he? He didn't REALLY turn on Michael. He said that he had never gotten an order from Michael (although why they didn't ask who gave him orders is beyond me). They couldn't really use Cicci's testimony in the case against Michael, AND he made a deal, so it was really a win-win for him.

As for that unasked question, if they had asked Cicci who he received his orders from, couldn't they have gotten Tom Hagen? Just for Tessio's murder alone, they could have charged Tom. Perhaps no corroboration???


President Emeritus of the Neal Pulcawer Fan Club
Re: Why did Cicci testify? [Re: Sicilian Babe] #588661
12/18/10 04:33 PM
12/18/10 04:33 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,020
Texas
O
olivant Offline
olivant  Offline
O

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,020
Texas
SB, the fact that any Mafioso talks puts him in danger. But you have to remember that a successful prosecution is based on a successful investigation. Cicci had knowledge that investgators could use as a component of their investigation of Michael. Certainly the substance of Cicci's information about Frankie would give prosecutors' leverage on Frankie.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Why did Cicci testify? [Re: Turnbull] #588664
12/18/10 05:13 PM
12/18/10 05:13 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,989
getthesenets Offline
Underboss
getthesenets  Offline
Underboss
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,989
Originally Posted By: Turnbull
In addition to the excellent points Lilo and Olivant made:

The Senate committee deliberately set up Michael by keeping Pentangeli's survival secret. So, they probably went overboard in sweetening a deal to get Cicci to testify, so that Michael would be convinced that Cicci was the only witness against him--and Cicci testified that he never got a direct order from Michael. That was the setup.


I agree. Mike wasn't gonna go to jail for being a mobster...but for PERJURY...

He made statements under oath that Pent. could and would have contradicted....

A native born Sicilian couldn't have been more cunning than the feds.

Re: Why did Cicci testify? [Re: Sicilian Babe] #588672
12/18/10 09:29 PM
12/18/10 09:29 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,518
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,518
AZ
Originally Posted By: Sicilian Babe
As for that unasked question, if they had asked Cicci who he received his orders from, couldn't they have gotten Tom Hagen? Just for Tessio's murder alone, they could have charged Tom. Perhaps no corroboration???

That's a really interesting question, SB. The family chart on display in the Senate hearing room already identified Tom as "consigliere"--i.e., a top member of the crime family. They could have subpoenaed Tom and put him on the stand. He'd have been in the same position as Michael: either lie under oath or plead the Fifth, which would have made him (and his boss) look guilty in the eyes of the world. That would make for an interesting dilemma: Michael would insist that Tom follow him down the perjury path--then they'd both have been in trouble had Pentangeli testified.

I suspect, though (and Oli, please commment on this), that they wouldn't want to put a lawyer--Michael's lawyer--on the stand. The Bar Association probably would protest that it would be a violatin of client/attorney privilege, as well as a threat to other lawyers defending clients accused of crimes.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Why did Cicci testify? [Re: Turnbull] #588675
12/18/10 10:30 PM
12/18/10 10:30 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,020
Texas
O
olivant Offline
olivant  Offline
O

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,020
Texas
TB, I think that calling Tom to testify would have been frought with problems and legal objections. I don't know what the federal statute back then said. I suppose that if Cicci's testimony about Tom's involvement in criminal activity could have been corroborated, then the Senate committee could have requested a judge to disqualify Tom as Mike's attorney and compel his testimony. Then maybe they would have granted Tom immunity. It would have been complicated, but I don't think the ABA would have any influence. Remember Bruce Cutler? He and a team attorney were disqualified for being part of a criminal conspiracy, but the court had him on tape participating in it. So, there was indisputable evidence.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."

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