The first thing is the Corleones would have found out almost immediately that Tatt was a front man for Barz who was consolidating his power to become the Don of all Dons. This would have been a direct threat to the Corleones. Further, Sol and Barz would have done exactly what the Rosatos did to Frankie...they would have started to move into Corleone territories and not only sell drugs, but get into gambling and maybe even the unions. Since Luca would have still been alive, he would have been dispatched to kill Sol, and this would have set off an assassination attempt on Vito, and from there the story would pretty much have been the same.

But if the Corleones agreed to completely support Sollozzo, why should he still conspire with Barzini? That wouldn't be in his interest anymore.

Besides, the Corleones were the most powerful family at that time and the Tattaglias were generally held in disregard. As Sollozzo was a businessman why should he not be loyal to the Corleones if they gave him everything he wanted. That would have been his best bet, logically speaking.

I don't know when there would have been trouble but trouble there would have eventually been. Barzini wanted to supplant the Corleones-whether it took five years or fifteen years, that was his goal.

Agreed...Barzini would have done anything to eventually destroy The Corleones. By going into the drug business together, Barzini would have been "closer" to Vito than ever before. Remember - "Keep your friends close but your enemies closer."

I've always believed that Sol approached Barzini first. He knew Barz was anxious to move past Vito as Numero Uno, and would have the most to gain from the riches he'd make with Sol through drugs. But Barz told him, "If Corleone knows I'm your partner, he'll say no because he'll know that you'll strengthen me. Go to Tattaglia. He's a pimp, and Corleone doesn't fear him. Promise Tatt and Corleone whatever you want, but I'll be your real but silent partner." Barz couldn't lose: If Vito said yes, Barz would get richer and stronger secretly. If Vito said no, Barz knew Sol would have to kill him, which would make Barz Numero Uno even without the drugs profits.

So, what if Vito'd said yes? The novel says Sonny was itching to have a big operation of his own, and to get out from Vito's thumb. But Vito wouldn't have trusted the hothead to run a dangerous business. And in any event, Vito needed to keep arms-length from actual operations, and having Sonny run his end wouldn't exactly be arms-length. I'm guessing he would have delegated it to Tessio--the novel says he kept Tess on a long leash partly so that his foes wouldn't readily see that Tess was one of his capos. But such an arrangement would have put Tess in the path of temptation--always a bad thing for any Mafioso, no matter who he was nominally loyal to. So, I'm guessing, Barz eventually would have shown his hand to Tessio and conspired with him in the same way he did to get rid of Michael.

And what about Paulie? he was Sollozzo's ace in the hole-someone close to Vito and Clemenza, keeping an eye on them both. If there's no assassination attempt does Sollozzo give him the high hand and cut him loose?

Or does he keep on paying him and use him later on?

I think Sollozzo only aproached Paulie after Vito declined his offer.

Hmm. I tend to think that Sollozzo approached Paulie before the meeting. Paulie had missed multiple days of work and it was confirmed that he had been in contact with Sollozzo. Sollozzo also knew when and where to pick up Tom. So I think he had been watching the Corleones for a while and just put his plan into action once Vito declined the offer.

I agree, Lilo. The phone records did Paulie in, and they went back some months according to the novel.

MICHAEL: Now who approached you? Tattaglia or Barzini?

CARLO: It was Barzini.

...but months elapsed between the drugs meeting (early September) and Vito's shooting (late December). My guess is that Sol didn't recruit Paulie until after Vito turned him down.

Agreed, Sollozzo couldn't chance Paulie changing his mind or spilling the beans.

Indeed.



If I remember correctly, Paulie had missed days of work around december, in the weeks before the attempt on Vito's life.

And Sollozzo only needed to know where to pick up Tom on that same day, which was months after the meeting.

What I never understood. Sollozzo is backed by Tattaglia, and represents them in the Corleone drug meeting. But is he more of a Tattaglia business partner, or a regular soldier? What I mean is, are his actions his own, or ordered by Phillip Tattaglia. The assassination, Tom's kidnapping, the others I can't think of, but my question applies to them to.

And how do you suppose they flipped Paulie? Seems to me all they had to do was point out the obvious. Vito was getting old, Paulie was on his way up, and they could use him to fill the power vacuum/give him a part in the heroin trade.

Based on Sollozzo's planning of everything else I think he was in contact with Paulie much before Vito's shooting. Sollozzo was two steps ahead of everyone until he ran into Michael. If the Corleones can wait years to activate a plan, surely Sollozzo could have planned ahead a few months.

I believe Sollozzo was sort of an independent contractor for Tattaglia and Barzini. He would have had to clear his actions but I don't see him asking so much as almost telling them (at least Tattaglia) what he was going to do.

Sollozzo was known as a top drug guy, which would seem to indicate he was not just a soldier. I don't think a soldier could have requested and received a meeting with the entire Corleone hierarchy.

Per book, Clemenza believed Paulie was just greedy and ambitious. Clemenza thought perhaps the treachery could have been forestalled if the Family had paid Paulie more money. Or not. Clemenza didn't spend a lot of time thinking about it.

I think, Paulie was indeed greedy and ambitious. FFC points that out in a few scenes at the wedding party: Paulie staring at the wedding purse. And his non-respect towards Clemenza when he touches him in the face.
I think, Paulie didn't care about things like loyalty.

Paulie is another example of how greed trumps common sense every time out. Did Paulie really think that Sonny would view his convenient "sickness" on the day of Vito's shooting as an innocent coincidence?

Sonny really used his head in this situation. In fact, this was a very good start, no? He didn't give Paulie the Carlo Rizzi beatdown, nor did he strike on impulse like with Bruno Tattaglia. He held a meeting with Tessio, checked the phone records... what went wrong?

The story dictates that there is refusal to the new world / state. Google 510 stage hero's journey.