GangsterBB.NET


Funko Pop! Movies:
The Godfather 50th Anniversary Collectors Set -
3 Figure Set: Michael, Vito, Sonny

Who's Online Now
2 registered members (BugsyM, Signor Vitelli), 52 guests, and 3 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Shout Box
Site Links
>Help Page
>More Smilies
>GBB on Facebook
>Job Saver

>Godfather Website
>Scarface Website
>Mario Puzo Website
NEW!
Active Member Birthdays
No birthdays today
Newest Members
TheGhost, Pumpkin, RussianCriminalWorld, JohnnyTheBat, Havana
10349 Registered Users
Top Posters(All Time)
Irishman12 67,618
DE NIRO 44,945
J Geoff 31,285
Hollander 24,123
pizzaboy 23,296
SC 22,902
Turnbull 19,518
Mignon 19,066
Don Cardi 18,238
Sicilian Babe 17,300
plawrence 15,058
Forum Statistics
Forums21
Topics42,384
Posts1,059,729
Members10,349
Most Online796
Jan 21st, 2020
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
When did Barzini contact Tessio? #580429
09/06/10 05:41 AM
09/06/10 05:41 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,718
Berlin, Germany
Danito Offline OP
Underboss
Danito  Offline OP
Underboss
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,718
Berlin, Germany
I don't remember if this has been discussed. Did Barzini contact Tessio before Vito had died?
If so, Tessio would not only betray Michael, but also Vito, which I can't believe.
If not: There wasn't much time between Vito's death and his funeral. And Barzini must have calculated some days for Tessio to grieve for his boss and friend, before he opened up for his suggestion.

Re: When did Barzini contact Tessio? [Re: Danito] #580435
09/06/10 07:08 AM
09/06/10 07:08 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
Lilo Offline
Lilo  Offline

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
I think Tessio would have had feelers out since at least that meeting that Clemenza and he had had with Vito and Mike.


"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives."
Winter is Coming

Now this is the Law of the Jungle—as old and as true as the sky; And the wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the wolf that shall break it must die.
As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk, the Law runneth forward and back; For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.
Re: When did Barzini contact Tessio? [Re: Lilo] #580468
09/06/10 04:09 PM
09/06/10 04:09 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,518
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,518
AZ
I agree with Lilo. In the fishtank scene, Vito asks, "Do you trust my judgment?" "Always, Godfather," says Clem, with feeling. "Yess-ss," hisses Tess. If I remember correctly, Tess exits hastily, without a handshake. I think he sent out feelers to Barzini soon afterward. I don't think Barz attempted to turn him first, much less at Vito's burial.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: When did Barzini contact Tessio? [Re: Turnbull] #580488
09/07/10 09:53 AM
09/07/10 09:53 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,568
Sonny_Black Offline
Underboss
Sonny_Black  Offline
Underboss
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,568
I thought it was Tessio who made the handshake with Michael. tongue


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: When did Barzini contact Tessio? [Re: Turnbull] #580489
09/07/10 09:53 AM
09/07/10 09:53 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline
Consigliere to the Stars
dontomasso  Offline
Consigliere to the Stars

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
Originally Posted By: Turnbull
I agree with Lilo. In the fishtank scene, Vito asks, "Do you trust my judgment?" "Always, Godfather," says Clem, with feeling. "Yess-ss," hisses Tess. If I remember correctly, Tess exits hastily, without a handshake. I think he sent out feelers to Barzini soon afterward. I don't think Barz attempted to turn him first, much less at Vito's burial.


Tess shakes Michael's hand, but does so with his LEFT hand. This is telling. Much like when Luca refused to shake hands with Tatt Jr.

I am sure Tess put feelers out right after the meeting, and it was even clear to an ailing Vito that there would be a traitor in the family as soon as he died.

Tess and Barz, who underestimated Michael, figured he'd be easy game once he took over.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: When did Barzini contact Tessio? [Re: dontomasso] #580527
09/07/10 02:33 PM
09/07/10 02:33 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,020
Texas
O
olivant Offline
olivant  Offline
O

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,020
Texas
Originally Posted By: dontomasso


Tess and Barz, who underestimated Michael, figured he'd be easy game once he took over.


It's at least ironic that Tessio ("Tessio was always smarter.") was the one who "... sensed something else in the man[Michael]; a force cleverly kept hidden, a man jealously guarding his true strength from public gaze ..."


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: When did Barzini contact Tessio? [Re: olivant] #581340
09/20/10 01:56 PM
09/20/10 01:56 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline
Consigliere to the Stars
dontomasso  Offline
Consigliere to the Stars

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
Originally Posted By: olivant
Originally Posted By: dontomasso


Tess and Barz, who underestimated Michael, figured he'd be easy game once he took over.


It's at least ironic that Tessio ("Tessio was always smarter.") was the one who "... sensed something else in the man[Michael]; a force cleverly kept hidden, a man jealously guarding his true strength from public gaze ..."


Tess did not know about the secret Neri Regime, so he thought it didn't matter how strong Michael was because he figured Barz and the other families would have more muscle than Clemenza.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: When did Barzini contact Tessio? [Re: dontomasso] #581374
09/20/10 11:04 PM
09/20/10 11:04 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,518
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,518
AZ
...plus, I think Barzini promised Tess that he'd be the undisputed head of what remained of the Corleone family.

In the fishtank scene, Clemenza says, "Don Corleone, you said the day would come when me an' Tessio could form our own family" [emphasis added]. One family with co-Dons? Never happen. Tess and Clem either would have had to divvy up the Corleone Family, or fought to the death to be the undisputed Don. When Tess went over to Barzini, I'm sure that part of the deal was that Clem would be whacked along with Michael.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: When did Barzini contact Tessio? [Re: Turnbull] #581936
09/29/10 06:54 PM
09/29/10 06:54 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 341
North America
Mr. Blonde Offline
Capo
Mr. Blonde  Offline
Capo
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 341
North America
The irony is, though, even had Tessio and Barzini succeeded, Tessio's days surely would have been numbered. If Tessio was proven to be disloyal to the Corleones, how could Barzini have expected any loyalty at all from Tessio either? Someone as shrewd as Barzini would see Tessio's behavior as a deep character flaw, one that may be temporarily quelled but eventually would manifest again under certain circumstances.

In all likelihood, once The Corleones and all internal threats from within the family had been extinguished, Barzini would have had Tessio eliminated as well, replacing him with a figurehead whose loyalty had been proven and unquestioned.

Re: When did Barzini contact Tessio? [Re: Mr. Blonde] #581973
09/30/10 08:42 AM
09/30/10 08:42 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,568
Sonny_Black Offline
Underboss
Sonny_Black  Offline
Underboss
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,568
I agree with Blonde. That's the way the mafia works. Funzi Tieri also encoured members from Angelo Bruno's family to turn against their boss. But after Bruno was killed Funzi ordered the death of the same men he had encoured to kill Bruno, because they had shown to be disloyal. A same thing also happened with Bonanno zip Cesare Bonventre who had conspired with others to kill Carmine Galante, but was eventually wacked himself as he was seen as a liability.


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: When did Barzini contact Tessio? [Re: Mr. Blonde] #592205
01/25/11 06:38 PM
01/25/11 06:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 11
Jacksonville, IL
ADilla_Nevada Offline
Wiseguy
ADilla_Nevada  Offline
Wiseguy
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 11
Jacksonville, IL
Originally Posted By: Mr. Blonde
The irony is, though, even had Tessio and Barzini succeeded, Tessio's days surely would have been numbered. If Tessio was proven to be disloyal to the Corleones, how could Barzini have expected any loyalty at all from Tessio either? Someone as shrewd as Barzini would see Tessio's behavior as a deep character flaw, one that may be temporarily quelled but eventually would manifest again under certain circumstances.

In all likelihood, once The Corleones and all internal threats from within the family had been extinguished, Barzini would have had Tessio eliminated as well, replacing him with a figurehead whose loyalty had been proven and unquestioned.


What Barzini did would be close to what Lucky did with Salavtore...after taking out Messeria, he took out Salavtore because he knew Sal would viewed him as disloyal and already planning to have him killed. So it makes me wonder, did Tessio have a backup plan? ....did Tessio have something in place to take out Barzini soon as possible (had Vito actually been killed)?


Questo Consigliere Deaf vi farà dormire con i pesci ...!

-- unknown Consigliere nicknamed called "Deafy"
Re: When did Barzini contact Tessio? [Re: ADilla_Nevada] #592208
01/25/11 06:52 PM
01/25/11 06:52 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238
The Ravenite Social Club
Don Cardi Offline
Caporegime
Don Cardi  Offline
Caporegime

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238
The Ravenite Social Club
Originally Posted By: ADilla_Nevada
......So it makes me wonder, did Tessio have a backup plan? ....did Tessio have something in place to take out Barzini soon as possible (had Vito actually been killed)?


Matter of fact, I believe that it was quite the opposite. Barzini was the one who probably had a back up plan to take out Tessio had they succeeded in assassinating Michael. Barzini's thinking:

"Now how can I ever trust a man who is willing to set up and sell out the Corleone family...a family that he has been with since the beginning? If he was willing to turn on Vito and his son, a family that has been loyal to him, then who am I? Surely he won't think twice about turning on me if the opportunity presents itself."

I believe that Barzini made all kinds of promises to Tessio and never intended on keeping them. He was going to take Tessio out as soon as he, Barzini, became the new Boss of Bosses.



Don Cardi cool

Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.




Re: When did Barzini contact Tessio? [Re: Danito] #592221
01/25/11 08:09 PM
01/25/11 08:09 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,020
Texas
O
olivant Offline
olivant  Offline
O

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,020
Texas
Although Mike considered Tessio smarter than Clemenza, that might not be saying much. In any case, Tessio was an operations manager, not an executive. His concern was survival; he wasn't a strategic thinker.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: When did Barzini contact Tessio? [Re: Don Cardi] #592243
01/25/11 09:24 PM
01/25/11 09:24 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,518
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,518
AZ
Originally Posted By: Don Cardi
Originally Posted By: ADilla_Nevada
......So it makes me wonder, did Tessio have a backup plan? ....did Tessio have something in place to take out Barzini soon as possible (had Vito actually been killed)?


Matter of fact, I believe that it was quite the opposite. Barzini was the one who probably had a back up plan to take out Tessio had they succeeded in assassinating Michael. Barzini's thinking:

"Now how can I ever trust a man who is willing to set up and sell out the Corleone family...a family that he has been with since the beginning? If he was willing to turn on Vito and his son, a family that has been loyal to him, then who am I? Surely he won't think twice about turning on me if the opportunity presents itself."

I believe that Barzini made all kinds of promises to Tessio and never intended on keeping them. He was going to take Tessio out as soon as he, Barzini, became the new Boss of Bosses.

I agree with both. Clearly Barzini would know that a guy who turned on his long-term Godfather would be an immediate security risk to his new boss or patron. And, having gotten rid of Michael (and presumably Clemenza), why would Barzini tolerate even a semblance of independence from Tessio? So I agree that he would have dispatched Tess sooner rather than later.

But wouldn't Tess, "always smarter," have figured that out? Sure. But, a constant theme in the novel and the trilogy is how greed clouds men's judgment. Probably Tatt believed all the blandishments Barzini offered him because he wanted to believe them, rather than think about how much risk he was putting himself to. So he ignored the peril--just as Paulie Gatto and Carlo Rizzi did.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: When did Barzini contact Tessio? [Re: Turnbull] #592288
01/26/11 09:52 AM
01/26/11 09:52 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,568
Sonny_Black Offline
Underboss
Sonny_Black  Offline
Underboss
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,568
Originally Posted By: Turnbull
I agree with both. Clearly Barzini would know that a guy who turned on his long-term Godfather would be an immediate security risk to his new boss or patron. And, having gotten rid of Michael (and presumably Clemenza), why would Barzini tolerate even a semblance of independence from Tessio? So I agree that he would have dispatched Tess sooner rather than later.


I remember I already said this in another topic. But a scenario such like this happened in real life. Cesare Bonventre, Carmine Galante's bodyguard, conpsired with Galante's enemies to take him out. After that, he was promised to become a caporegime of the crew of zips. He did become a caporegime, but was killed a few years later anyway. I'm not sure about the exact reason for this, but I remember reading/hearing that it had something to do with him betraying Galante. He was therefore considered unreliable.


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: When did Barzini contact Tessio? [Re: Sonny_Black] #592317
01/26/11 12:18 PM
01/26/11 12:18 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,518
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,518
AZ
Bonventre's assassination was part of Joe Massino's long-term plan to eliminate every rival. Galante was the champion of the Sicilian faction. At one point, another Zip, Sal Catalano, was effectively the street boss of the Bonannos. Bonventre switched sides. But he was still a Zip as far as Massino was concerned--not an American, not his guy (like Vitale)--a potential rival.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: When did Barzini contact Tessio? [Re: Danito] #592347
01/26/11 03:28 PM
01/26/11 03:28 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,568
Sonny_Black Offline
Underboss
Sonny_Black  Offline
Underboss
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,568
How come Massino didn't eliminate Sal Catalano?


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: When did Barzini contact Tessio? [Re: olivant] #592351
01/26/11 03:42 PM
01/26/11 03:42 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 3,064
J
JCrusher Offline
Underboss
JCrusher  Offline
J
Underboss
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 3,064
Originally Posted By: olivant
Originally Posted By: dontomasso


Tess and Barz, who underestimated Michael, figured he'd be easy game once he took over.


It's at least ironic that Tessio ("Tessio was always smarter.") was the one who "... sensed something else in the man[Michael]; a force cleverly kept hidden, a man jealously guarding his true strength from public gaze ..."

Well I wouldn't give Mike too much credit. Vito basically told him what would happen. Vito told him that whoever approached him to set a up a meeting would be a traitor and Tessio was the one who did so.


Moderated by  Don Cardi, J Geoff, SC, Turnbull 

Powered by UBB.threads™