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Why use Rocco #579573
08/20/10 06:47 PM
08/20/10 06:47 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 102
New York
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Louren_Lampone Offline OP
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Louren_Lampone  Offline OP
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New York
At the end of GF2 Rocco subjects himself to the task of taking out Hyman Roth. Of course this is a suicide mission. The question is, did FFC use Rocco as a familiar face for us the audience for the hit on Hyman Roth? Or were they trying to use this scene as a way of telling us that Michael was using everyone and sacrificing loyal men?


"Now, that plane goes to Miami."
"That's right. That's where I want it met."
Re: Why use Rocco [Re: Louren_Lampone] #579574
08/20/10 06:58 PM
08/20/10 06:58 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,568
Sonny_Black Offline
Underboss
Sonny_Black  Offline
Underboss
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,568
I was about to ask this myself, because this also bothered me for years. My first theory was that Michael suspected Rocco for being part of the conspiracy against him (remember him saying "It's someone from the inside, who's really afraid", and so ordered Rocco to do this hit to prove his allegiance to Michael. But I'm afraid that theory won't hold...


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: Why use Rocco [Re: Sonny_Black] #579587
08/20/10 11:24 PM
08/20/10 11:24 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,513
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,513
AZ
A major subtheme of GFII is how Neri tries to push past Rocco and Tom to become Michael's Number Two man. You see it in many places: in Anthony's party, when Rocco is little more than a rent-a-cop; when Michael introduces Neri to Ola while dispatching Roccco to get food for Johnny's men; when Rocco, not Neri, shuts up Deanna; when Rocco, not Neri, responds to the Tahoe shooting. And, in that boathouse scene, notice that Neri's sitting, leaning back, expounding on Roth's chances, while Rocco remains standing, saying nothing.
Rocco was Clemenza's protege; Neri was Michael's. Rocco had become expendible by the end of II. After Michael humiliated Tom by claiming that anyone could be killed, he turned and said, "Rocco?" Notice that he didn't say, "Al?" He needed Neri, he didn't need Rocco.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Why use Rocco [Re: Turnbull] #579603
08/21/10 12:02 PM
08/21/10 12:02 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 102
New York
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Louren_Lampone Offline OP
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Louren_Lampone  Offline OP
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Turnbull, what do you mean he didn't need Rocco?
I thought that having guys like Rocco and Neri around him would help keep him safe and secure.

Remember the scene "I trust these men with my life Senator..."
So it's surprising that Michael (recklessly) orders Rocco to commit the hit, in front of everyone too...

thanks guys


"Now, that plane goes to Miami."
"That's right. That's where I want it met."
Re: Why use Rocco [Re: Louren_Lampone] #579605
08/21/10 12:25 PM
08/21/10 12:25 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,019
Texas
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olivant Offline
olivant  Offline
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Texas
I don't completely agree with TB. Of course, one must consult the novel regarding the relationship between Michael and Neri. As it illustrates, Neri was Michael's Luca, destined to be considered as Michael when Michael wasn't physically present. As TB points out, Rocco was brought into the family by Clemenza and destinmed to be a capo, but nothing more. Given the Trilogy efficiency theme of "a minimum number of Corleone capos" (a la just Clemenza and Tessio and their 1,000 guns), Rocco is the only capo in II and by III, there are no capos at all. So, yes, Rocco was expendable; Neri was not. But, unlike TB, I don't interpret scenes in the film as any type of competition between Neri and Rocco for the top spot. I think those scenes just reflect the Corleone hierarchy.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Why use Rocco [Re: olivant] #653420
06/27/12 05:27 PM
06/27/12 05:27 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,809
Scotland
Camarel Offline
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Camarel  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,809
Scotland
I'm probaly wrong but was pentangelli not a capo

Re: Why use Rocco [Re: Camarel] #653425
06/27/12 05:54 PM
06/27/12 05:54 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,019
Texas
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olivant Offline
olivant  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2003
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Texas
Originally Posted By: Camarel
I'm probaly wrong but was pentangelli not a capo


He was until Clemenza died whereupon he apparently became the don of the NY faction of the Corleone family.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Why use Rocco [Re: Louren_Lampone] #653451
06/27/12 07:18 PM
06/27/12 07:18 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 385
Tampa, FL
waynethegame Offline
Capo
waynethegame  Offline
Capo
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 385
Tampa, FL
My view is that Rocco did it for the same reason it "had" to be Michael who did the job on Sollozzo and McCluskey; Rocco was a made man, a capo in the family. They knew he could do the job on Roth, and this was the family's only chance to get him. Suicide mission or not, the family comes before everything and Rocco knew that. He did the job personally because he knew that even if it cost him his life, Roth would die.


Wayne

"Finance is a gun. Politics is knowing when to pull the trigger."
Don Lucchesi
Re: Why use Rocco [Re: Louren_Lampone] #654048
07/01/12 02:43 PM
07/01/12 02:43 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 578
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danielperrygin Offline
Underboss
danielperrygin  Offline
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Underboss
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Posts: 578
Pete stayed capo ut of loyalty to Mike, and Frank took this position when Pete died. They were the boss of NY but they were capos under Michael.

Re: Why use Rocco [Re: Louren_Lampone] #654051
07/01/12 02:44 PM
07/01/12 02:44 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 578
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danielperrygin Offline
Underboss
danielperrygin  Offline
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Underboss
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Posts: 578
What position do you all consider Neri to hold? Fredo was labeled underboss and Tom consigliere, and later acting boss.

Last edited by danielperrygin; 07/01/12 02:46 PM.
Re: Why use Rocco [Re: Louren_Lampone] #654080
07/01/12 05:34 PM
07/01/12 05:34 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 385
Tampa, FL
waynethegame Offline
Capo
waynethegame  Offline
Capo
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 385
Tampa, FL
I think Neri had an unofficial position; he wasn't a capo (had no crew that we're aware of), wasn't consiglieri, wasn't underboss, but he wasn't just a buttonman either. Like Luca before him, Neri was "special ops", as it was. He took his marching orders straight from the Don, no "buffas" involved.


Wayne

"Finance is a gun. Politics is knowing when to pull the trigger."
Don Lucchesi
Re: Why use Rocco [Re: Louren_Lampone] #654101
07/01/12 08:42 PM
07/01/12 08:42 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 578
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danielperrygin Offline
Underboss
danielperrygin  Offline
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Underboss
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 578
Ok so when they say he is Mike's Luca that mean it.

Re: Why use Rocco [Re: Louren_Lampone] #654102
07/01/12 08:42 PM
07/01/12 08:42 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 578
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danielperrygin Offline
Underboss
danielperrygin  Offline
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Underboss
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Posts: 578
Ok so when they say he is Mike's Luca they mean it.


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