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Michael's Meeting with Moe #574939
06/04/10 09:15 AM
06/04/10 09:15 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
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M
Mark Offline OP
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Mark  Offline OP
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Recently, it occurred to me that Michael's meeting with Moe Green in the Vegas hotel room had an intriguing aspect. Why would Michael discuss buying out Moe's hotel/casino interests in front of all those people? I understand that most "VIP's" have their inner circle of trusted people but that seemed to be a big deal to be just tossed out there in front of everyone. Fredo's immediate reaction is a mirrored mistake that Sonny makes at the Sollozzo meeting. BTW, Fredo's little "dance jig" when he opens the door and the band starts playing is priceless! (As noted in the HBO documentary for John Cazale) Thoughts?

Re: Michael's Meeting with Moe [Re: Mark] #574940
06/04/10 09:53 AM
06/04/10 09:53 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline
Consigliere to the Stars
dontomasso  Offline
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With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
It was to humiliate Moe.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: Michael's Meeting with Moe [Re: dontomasso] #574952
06/04/10 03:18 PM
06/04/10 03:18 PM
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Posts: 19,518
AZ
Turnbull Offline
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And, if not to literally humiliate Moe, to appear with a show of force ("lookit all these guys on my side").
Also, he wanted Fredo there as a courtesy and because he was Moe's "friend" and could be "relied on" to be helpful to Michael, tongue and Tom was there as his lawyer. Johnny was invited by Fredo. The novel says Neri was there, too.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Michael's Meeting with Moe [Re: Turnbull] #574993
06/05/10 01:19 PM
06/05/10 01:19 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,272
M
Mark Offline OP
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Mark  Offline OP
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Underboss
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Humiliating Moe was indeed accomplished. Thus leading to Moe's exclamation about making the deal with Barzini and keeping his hotel in the process. I think this is Moe's way of firing back a big "F.U." to Michael and his deal.

Re: Michael's Meeting with Moe [Re: Mark] #575006
06/05/10 03:47 PM
06/05/10 03:47 PM
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Posts: 15,020
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olivant Offline
olivant  Offline
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It was all a set-up anyway. The Corleones knew Moe would say no to them and that they would have to dispose of him. But I wonder how Moe's ownership interest, if it was legally recorded, was transfered to the Corleones.

Last edited by olivant; 06/05/10 03:47 PM.

"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Michael's Meeting with Moe [Re: olivant] #575017
06/05/10 09:10 PM
06/05/10 09:10 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
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Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

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Originally Posted By: olivant
But I wonder how Moe's ownership interest, if it was legally recorded, was transfered to the Corleones.

You can bet it was through someone else as a front. In II, Michael testifies at the Senate hearingn that he "owns some stock in the hotels."


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Michael's Meeting with Moe [Re: Turnbull] #575052
06/06/10 10:21 PM
06/06/10 10:21 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,272
M
Mark Offline OP
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Mark  Offline OP
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Underboss
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Do you think Michael suspected that Moe was secretly working on a deal with Barzini while doing a "favor" for the Corleone's by "taking in Freddy"? With the set up, Moe blows his stack and confirms the deal with Barzini thus sealing his fate?

Re: Michael's Meeting with Moe [Re: Mark] #575055
06/06/10 10:33 PM
06/06/10 10:33 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,020
Texas
O
olivant Offline
olivant  Offline
O

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Texas
Moe took Fredo in because the Corleones bankrolled his casino or, as the novel states, to help him finish furnishing his hotel. I always figure that there are few secrets in the underworld and that Moe knew why Michael wanted to see him. So he probbaly did talk to Barzini.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Michael's Meeting with Moe [Re: Turnbull] #575063
06/07/10 10:47 AM
06/07/10 10:47 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline
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dontomasso  Offline
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Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
Originally Posted By: Turnbull
Originally Posted By: olivant
But I wonder how Moe's ownership interest, if it was legally recorded, was transfered to the Corleones.

You can bet it was through someone else as a front. In II, Michael testifies at the Senate hearingn that he "owns some stock in the hotels."



In Godfather II there are a couple of scenes in which there is an explanation of who owns the casinos in name, and who really owns them. I think it was some Lawyers in Beverly Hills who were the nominal owners. Even though Michael "owned" the casinos, as did Roth, they apparently allowed various groups such as the Lakevill Road Boys to come in and share in the profits just to keep the peace.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: Michael's Meeting with Moe [Re: olivant] #575090
06/07/10 03:18 PM
06/07/10 03:18 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,518
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

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Posts: 19,518
AZ
Originally Posted By: olivant
Moe took Fredo in because the Corleones bankrolled his casino or, as the novel states, to help him finish furnishing his hotel. I always figure that there are few secrets in the underworld and that Moe knew why Michael wanted to see him. So he probbaly did talk to Barzini.

Exactly, Olivant. Moe had to know that the money the Corleones gave him wasn't simply room and board for Fredo. Sooner or later they'd come to claim their ownership. So, Moe, believing that the Corleones were being run out of town, figured he could tolk to Barzini and not have to worry about Michael taking retribution.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Michael's Meeting with Moe [Re: Turnbull] #575094
06/07/10 04:16 PM
06/07/10 04:16 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
Lilo Offline
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MI
If Moe had played it straight with the Corleones and his casino hadn't been "losing" money, would the Corleones have allowed Moe to remain as a partner or was he slated for removal (hostile or not) once the Corleones knew how much $$$ there was in casino gambling.


"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives."
Winter is Coming

Now this is the Law of the Jungle—as old and as true as the sky; And the wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the wolf that shall break it must die.
As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk, the Law runneth forward and back; For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.
Re: Michael's Meeting with Moe [Re: Lilo] #575097
06/07/10 04:45 PM
06/07/10 04:45 PM
Joined: May 2006
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Pittsburgh, PA
The Last Woltz Offline
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Originally Posted By: Lilo
If Moe had played it straight with the Corleones and his casino hadn't been "losing" money, would the Corleones have allowed Moe to remain as a partner or was he slated for removal (hostile or not) once the Corleones knew how much $$$ there was in casino gambling.


Well, if we retrofit GFII, then I think he would stay, if only to keep Michael's business relationship with Hyman Roth undisturbed.

If not, I don't see why they would keep him around. What would they need him for? Michael didn't really seem to like having a lot of extraneous baggage around, especially when they were taking a cut of the profits. I'm sure sooner or later Michael would have gotten rid of him.


"A man in my position cannot afford to be made to look ridiculous!"
Re: Michael's Meeting with Moe [Re: Lilo] #575147
06/08/10 02:14 PM
06/08/10 02:14 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,518
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

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Posts: 19,518
AZ
Originally Posted By: Lilo
If Moe had played it straight with the Corleones and his casino hadn't been "losing" money, would the Corleones have allowed Moe to remain as a partner or was he slated for removal (hostile or not) once the Corleones knew how much $$$ there was in casino gambling.


Michael made it clear that his intent was to "buy you out." His need to control would never let him keep Moe as a partner. And, having a loose cannon like Moe as a partner would be bad for business.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Michael's Meeting with Moe [Re: Turnbull] #575149
06/08/10 02:27 PM
06/08/10 02:27 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
pizzaboy Offline
The Fuckin Doctor
pizzaboy  Offline
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Throggs Neck
Originally Posted By: Turnbull
And, having a loose cannon like Moe as a partner would be bad for business.


Not to mention dangerous and stupid. Moe would have always been a threat to him, if he let him live (Just like Fredo in Part 2).


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: Michael's Meeting with Moe [Re: Turnbull] #575150
06/08/10 02:29 PM
06/08/10 02:29 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
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Mark Offline OP
Underboss
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Underboss
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Do you think Michael would have let Moe live if he came back hat in hand with apology ready to let the Corleones buy him out?

Re: Michael's Meeting with Moe [Re: Mark] #575153
06/08/10 03:25 PM
06/08/10 03:25 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,020
Texas
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olivant Offline
olivant  Offline
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I think that Michael wanted control of the casino and hotel period. Without a financial interest in them anymore, Moe would have gone away. There was no percentage in Michael murdering him other than out of revenge for his treatment of Fredo.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."

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