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Fanuccis murder - Solozzos murder #35649
12/16/05 07:53 AM
12/16/05 07:53 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 55
Frankfurt
McCluskey Offline OP
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McCluskey  Offline OP
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Frankfurt
I got two questions:

1. Everybody knew that it was Vito who killed Fanucci, right?
That's why everybody in the hood showed so much respect. But why has Vito never been held responsible for that murder - by the Black Hand or the police?

2. How could the Corleone familiy arrange that Michael has not been accused for killing Solozo an Mccluskey but could return to New York? Everybody knew it was Michael...Was somebody else charged?

Re: Fanuccis murder - Solozzos murder #35650
12/16/05 09:55 AM
12/16/05 09:55 AM
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Posts: 17,300
New York
Sicilian Babe Offline
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Yes, it was well known in the neghborhood that Vito killed Fanucci, but not well known to the police. The book explains this in far more detail, however, we will stick to the movie. Remember, Vito went to Fanucci's house over the rooftops. That means that nobody saw him enter Fanucci's house. He was also not known to the cops, being a law-abiding citizen until his joblessness "drove" him to commit the dress robbery with Clemenza and Tessio.

As for Michael and the McCluskey/Sollozzo murders, the book again explains how this occurred. Vito got someone else to confess to the murders. This man was facing the death penalty anyway for a murder he had committed and confessed to. Vito promised to financially support his family in exchange for his confession, and Michael was brought home. I don't think any of this is ever explained in the movie.


President Emeritus of the Neal Pulcawer Fan Club
Re: Fanuccis murder - Solozzos murder #35651
12/16/05 10:23 AM
12/16/05 10:23 AM
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Posts: 55
Frankfurt
McCluskey Offline OP
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McCluskey  Offline OP
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Frankfurt
Well, that explains a lot, thanks.

But what's about the Black Hand? Fanucci was part of it, right? They were blackmailers. It should have been in their interest to find out who dared to kill one of them, just in order to prevent that it will hapen again. They could have find out that it was Vito and take revenge but they didn't. Were they afraid of Vito? Unlikely, he wasn't a big shot at that time...

Re: Fanuccis murder - Solozzos murder #35652
12/16/05 10:56 AM
12/16/05 10:56 AM
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Don Cardi Offline
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Don Cardi  Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by McCluskey:
Well, that explains a lot, thanks.

But what's about the Black Hand? Fanucci was part of it, right? They were blackmailers. It should have been in their interest to find out who dared to kill one of them, just in order to prevent that it will hapen again. They could have find out that it was Vito and take revenge but they didn't. Were they afraid of Vito? Unlikely, he wasn't a big shot at that time...
Was he really part of the Black Hand?

There is a deleted scene where Vito is making a grocery delivery and witnesses two punks attacking Fanucci. When they slit Fanucci's throat, he squeals like a pig, running for his life.

Nothing was ever done about the punks slitting Fanucci's throat, and I believe that in witnessing this Vito realizes that Fanucci is not as powerful as he makes everyone else think that he is. From seeing this, Vito realizes that Fanucci is killable and that he will never have to worry about any kind of retaliation from anyone.


Don Cardi cool



Don Cardi cool

Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.




Re: Fanuccis murder - Solozzos murder #35653
12/16/05 05:15 PM
12/16/05 05:15 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,518
AZ
Turnbull Offline
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You raise a good point, McCluskey. As I posted in another current thread: Not only didn't the police investigate Fanucci's murder, but no one was sent by "higher-ups" to continue to collect from the legitimate businesses and rackets he was shaking down. Vito stepped in, apparently with no one's permission and without paying off anyone. That leads me to conclude that Fanucci was a free-lancer with no Mafia contacts.
A clue: young Genco refers to him as "The Black Hand." In immigrant neighborhoods, local racketeers--often just individuals--would invoke an identity with some feared organization in the home country, such as "The Mafia," "The Black Hand," "The Commorra," "Die Bruderbund," etc., as a way of increasing their clout and striking terror into their victims' hearts. In reality, they were basically free-lancers operating more or less alone. Maybe Fanucci was one of them.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Fanuccis murder - Solozzos murder #35654
12/16/05 05:31 PM
12/16/05 05:31 PM
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Posts: 2,854
Milky Way
Enzo Scifo Offline
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But if he was a freelancer, then why did everyone fear him. I don't think he didn't have an 'army' behind him, so he had to be important.
And rememeber, "he got a free ride from Maranzala".


Quote
See, we can act as smart as we want, but at the end of the day, we still follow a guy who fucks himself with kebab skewers.
Re: Fanuccis murder - Solozzos murder #35655
12/16/05 09:16 PM
12/16/05 09:16 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,518
AZ
Turnbull Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by Enzo Scifo:
But if he was a freelancer, then why did everyone fear him. I don't think he didn't have an 'army' behind him, so he had to be important.
And rememeber, "he got a free ride from Maranzala".
As I said above, Enzo: By cloaking himself with the the "Black Hand," Fanucci made himself more feared in the neighborhood than if he was just who he was: one (foppish) guy, operating alone. He may also have lied about "Maranzala" giving him a "license" to operate in the neighborhood, for exactly the same purpose. If "Maranzala" really was backing Fanucci, why didn't he try to avenge Fanucci's murder--or put a successor in place?


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Fanuccis murder - Solozzos murder #35656
12/17/05 08:01 AM
12/17/05 08:01 AM
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Posts: 2,854
Milky Way
Enzo Scifo Offline
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But if he was really acting alone, then why did everybody fear him? I mean, someone had to notice he didn't have any manpower behind him.


Quote
See, we can act as smart as we want, but at the end of the day, we still follow a guy who fucks himself with kebab skewers.
Re: Fanuccis murder - Solozzos murder #35657
12/17/05 08:22 AM
12/17/05 08:22 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238
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Don Cardi Offline
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Don Cardi  Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by Enzo Scifo:
I mean, someone had to notice he didn't have any manpower behind him.
Yes, and it was Vito who noticed this. To re-iterate, in the deleted scene Vito witnesses the two punks slash Fanucci's throat, and Vito realizes that Fanucci is not all that mighty and powerful. Vito realizes that Fanucci does not have the kind of manpower behind him that everyone thinks that he has.


Don Cardi cool



Don Cardi cool

Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.




Re: Fanuccis murder - Solozzos murder #35658
12/17/05 01:17 PM
12/17/05 01:17 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,518
AZ
Turnbull Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by Don Cardi:
Quote
Originally posted by Enzo Scifo:
[b] I mean, someone had to notice he didn't have any manpower behind him.
Yes, and it was Vito who noticed this. To re-iterate, in the deleted scene Vito witnesses the two punks slash Fanucci's throat, and Vito realizes that Fanucci is not all that mighty and powerful. Vito realizes that Fanucci does not have the kind of manpower behind him that everyone thinks that he has.


Don Cardi cool [/b]
Plus, Vito tells Clemenza and Tessio that two neighborhood guys (probably gambling operators) did business without paying off Fanucci. That was another give-away that Fanucci was operating alone.
The novel provides another (subtle) nuance:

In the novel, Fanucci comes to Vito's apartment to collect. It's in the evening, and the people who live in the building are sitting outside, chatting. Fanucci leaves Vito's building to put the money away in his apartment, and Vito crosses the rooftops to intercept and kill him outside the door of his (Fanucci's) apartment. Then he goes back across the rooftops and emerges from his (Vito's) building to join the neighbors in their chatting.
Though I don't have the novel in front of me, I believe it states that Vito was counting on the neighbors having witnessed Fanucci leaving his building, and Vito emerging after Fanucci left, to establish an alibi in case the police investigated Fanucci's disappearance. Nowhere in this passage does Vito show concern that Maranzalla or any Mob-type would inquire about Fanucci. This tells me that Vito was confident that Fanucci wasn't really "connected."


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Fanuccis murder - Solozzos murder #35659
12/17/05 01:24 PM
12/17/05 01:24 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238
The Ravenite Social Club
Don Cardi Offline
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Don Cardi  Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by Turnbull:
Plus, Vito tells Clemenza and Tessio that two neighborhood guys (probably gambling operators) operate without paying off Fanucci. That was another give-away that Fanucci was operating alone.
Another good point by Turnbull.

Joe Da Greek on Second Avenue was one of them. I cannot recall the other name. lol


Don Cardi cool



Don Cardi cool

Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.




Re: Fanuccis murder - Solozzos murder #35660
12/17/05 01:28 PM
12/17/05 01:28 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,518
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

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Quote
Originally posted by Don Cardi:
Joe Da Greek on Second Avenue was one of them. I cannot recall the other name. lol


Don Cardi cool
It sounded like "Joe Pignataro" confused


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Fanuccis murder - Solozzos murder #35661
12/17/05 01:30 PM
12/17/05 01:30 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 385
Tampa, FL
waynethegame Offline
Capo
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Tampa, FL
The novel explains this more.. Fanucci is set upon by the punks, and later he kills one (presumably.. the guy's found dead). The other one's family pays Fanucci off so he'll forswear his vengeance; Vito at this point realizes Fanucci isn't a real Mafioso, because a real bigshot Mafia guy would kill the second man, not accept money instead.

Quote

And suddenly he was sure that Fanucci had no great connections, could not possibly have. Not a man who informed to the police. Not a man who allowed his vengeance to be bought off. A real Mafioso chief would have had the other two men killed also. No. Fanucci had got lucky and killed one man but had known he could not kill the other two after they had been alerted.

....

And so it was Fanucci alone. Or Fanucci with some gunmen hired for special jobs on a strictly cash basis.
So he knew that Fanucci was just bluffing about having Maranzala's permission to collect. This was, of course, proven since nobody ever came after or took over the Fanucci rackets.

The book further hints/explains that Fanucci was so feared because most of the people who paid him were elderly or had no male children to protect them; it even makes a quote about it:

Quote


[Fanucci] was reputed to be of the "Black Hand", an offshoot of the Mafia which extorted money from families and storekeepers by threat of physical violence. However, since most of the inhabitants of the neighborhood were violent themselves, Fanucci's threats of bodily harm were effective only with elderly couples without male children to defend them. Some of the storekeepers paid him trifling sums as a matter of convenience.



Wayne

"Finance is a gun. Politics is knowing when to pull the trigger."
Don Lucchesi
Re: Fanuccis murder - Solozzos murder #35662
12/17/05 01:40 PM
12/17/05 01:40 PM
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Posts: 28
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FrankieFiveAngels Offline
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Why does Fanucci let Vito walk without paying? Vito's statement in the movie seems awfully weak.

Re: Fanuccis murder - Solozzos murder #35663
12/17/05 01:40 PM
12/17/05 01:40 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,518
AZ
Turnbull Offline
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Thanks for those quotes, Wayne--very helpful. smile
The novel states that "elderly couples without male children to protect them" paid off Fanucci. Sr. Abbandando has young Genco in the film. Again, I don't have the novel in front of me, but I don't remember where young Genco appears in the novel. Of course, he had to be there because Vito named him consigliere.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Fanuccis murder - Solozzos murder #35664
12/17/05 01:43 PM
12/17/05 01:43 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 385
Tampa, FL
waynethegame Offline
Capo
waynethegame  Offline
Capo
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Posts: 385
Tampa, FL
Quote
Originally posted by FrankieFiveAngels:
Why does Fanucci let Vito walk without paying? Vito's statement in the movie seems awfully weak.
In the book, Fanucci agrees to let Vito pay part now and part later.. it doesn't really go into detail why. I forget how much he gave him in the movie, but in the book Fanucci was only $200 short.

Quote

This was a permissable gambit. Fanucci had the bulk of the money and would wait. He might even be persuaded to take nothing more or to wait a little longer.


Wayne

"Finance is a gun. Politics is knowing when to pull the trigger."
Don Lucchesi
Re: Fanuccis murder - Solozzos murder #35665
12/17/05 01:46 PM
12/17/05 01:46 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238
The Ravenite Social Club
Don Cardi Offline
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Don Cardi  Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by Turnbull:
Quote
Originally posted by Don Cardi:
[b] Joe Da Greek on Second Avenue was one of them. I cannot recall the other name. lol


Don Cardi cool
It sounded like "Joe Pignataro" confused [/b]
Didn't he play for the Brooklyn Dodgers and coach 3rd base for the Mets? lol


I just looked it up on the transcript and it lists the other guy as Frank Pennitanlo.


Don Cardi cool



Don Cardi cool

Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.





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