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Mark McGwire comes clean #564624
01/11/10 04:15 PM
01/11/10 04:15 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
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Staten Island / New Jersey
Just Lou Offline OP
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McGwire admits steroids use

NEW YORK -- Mark McGwire finally came clean Monday, admitting he used steroids when he broke baseball's home run record in 1998.

McGwire said in a statement sent to The Associated Press on Monday that he used steroids on and off for nearly a decade.

"I wish I had never touched steroids," McGwire said in a statement. "It was foolish and it was a mistake. I truly apologize. Looking back, I wish I had never played during the steroid era."

McGwire also used human growth hormone, a person close to McGwire said, speaking on condition of anonymity because McGwire didn't include that detail in his statement.

McGwire's decision to admit using steroids was prompted by his decision to become hitting coach of the St. Louis Cardinals, his final big league team. Tony La Russa, McGwire's manager in Oakland and St. Louis, has been among McGwire's biggest supporters and thinks returning to the field can restore the former slugger's reputation.

"I never knew when, but I always knew this day would come," McGwire said. "It's time for me to talk about the past and to confirm what people have suspected."

He became the second major baseball star in less than a year to admit using illegal steroids, following the New York Yankees' Alex Rodriguez last February.

Others have been tainted but have denied knowingly using illegal drugs, including Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Sammy Sosa and David Ortiz.

Bonds has been indicted on charges he made false statements to a federal grand jury and obstructed justice. Clemens is under investigation by a federal grand jury trying to determine whether he lied to a congressional committee.

"I'm sure people will wonder if I could have hit all those home runs had I never taken steroids," McGwire said. "I had good years when I didn't take any, and I had bad years when I didn't take any. I had good years when I took steroids, and I had bad years when I took steroids. But no matter what, I shouldn't have done it and for that I'm truly sorry."

Big Mac's reputation has been in tatters since March 17, 2005, when he refused to answer questions at a Congressional hearing. Instead, he repeatedly said "I'm not here to talk about the past" when asked whether he took illegal steroids when he hit a then-record 70 home runs in 1998 or at any other time.

"After all this time, I want to come clean," he said. "I was not in a position to do that five years ago in my congressional testimony, but now I feel an obligation to discuss this and to answer questions about it. I'll do that, and then I just want to help my team."

The person close to McGwire said McGwire made the decision not to answer questions at that hearing on the advice of his lawyers.

McGwire disappeared from the public eye following his retirement as a player following the 2001 season. When the Cardinals hired the 47-year-old as coach on Oct. 26, they said he would address questions before spring training, and Monday's statement broke his silence.

"I remember trying steroids very briefly in the 1989/1990 offseason and then after I was injured in 1993, I used steroids again," McGwire said in his statement. "I used them on occasion throughout the '90s, including during the 1998 season."

McGwire said he took steroids to get back on the field, sounding much like the Yankees' Andy Pettitte two years ago when he admitted using HGH.

"During the mid-'90s, I went on the DL seven times and missed 228 games over five years," McGwire said in the statement. "I experienced a lot of injuries, including a ribcage strain, a torn left heel muscle, a stress fracture of the left heel, and a torn right heel muscle. It was definitely a miserable bunch of years, and I told myself that steroids could help me recover faster. I thought they would help me heal and prevent injuries, too."

Since the congressional hearing, baseball owners and players toughened their drug program twice, increasing the penalty for a first steroids offense from 10 days to 50 games in November 2005 and strengthening the power of the independent administrator in April 2008, following the publication of the Mitchell Report.

Re: Mark McGwire comes clean [Re: Just Lou] #564630
01/11/10 04:30 PM
01/11/10 04:30 PM
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I just posted a reply in another thread, but yeah, he wants to get into the Hall. He's probably tired of watching his contemporaries get voted in. I honestly think it will be too little, too late for him. But you never know.


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: Mark McGwire comes clean [Re: pizzaboy] #564659
01/11/10 11:49 PM
01/11/10 11:49 PM
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I was happy he came clean and thought he needed to do this to move on and not be bothered. But after the Costas interview I think he's done more damage to himself than anything! He admits using steroids but expects us to believe that it didn't enhance his performance at all! I think he's going to have people asking questions more than before. I wouldn't be surprised if the Cardinals pull the plug on this hitting coach experiment.

I find it all quite entertaining actually and I can't wait to see what happens. How is Tony La Russa going to defend him now? Obviously he knew he did steroids, but with the way McGwire handled it I can't imagine anyone wanting to be on his side right now.


"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want." -Calvin and Hobbes
Re: Mark McGwire comes clean [Re: Blibbleblabble] #564660
01/12/10 12:00 AM
01/12/10 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted By: Blibbleblabble
I was happy he came clean and thought he needed to do this to move on and not be bothered. But after the Costas interview I think he's done more damage to himself than anything! He admits using steroids but expects us to believe that it didn't enhance his performance at all! I think he's going to have people asking questions more than before. I wouldn't be surprised if the Cardinals pull the plug on this hitting coach experiment.

I find it all quite entertaining actually and I can't wait to see what happens. How is Tony La Russa going to defend him now? Obviously he knew he did steroids, but with the way McGwire handled it I can't imagine anyone wanting to be on his side right now.


tony la russa is a joke...almost every player in the A's used steroids, and as for right now (those i can remember) big mac and rick ankiel have been said of using roids.

but, yea i have more respect for mcgwire now with him coming forward (after 5 years), and i hope the others come forward as well. bud selig needs to come forward as well for knowing the problem, and and doing nothing to stop it.

Re: Mark McGwire comes clean [Re: BAM_233] #564661
01/12/10 12:07 AM
01/12/10 12:07 AM
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More thoughts later, but I agree this was a direct reaction to not even getting a sniff in the latest HOF voting. Those 2005 congressional hearings were a disaster for Big Mac, the pretending not tp know English of Sammy Sosa, and the finger-pointing denial (yet later proven lie) of Palmiero.

More and more Canseco's book looks to be spot-on.

Re: Mark McGwire comes clean [Re: goombah] #564662
01/12/10 12:19 AM
01/12/10 12:19 AM
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Just Lou Offline OP
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I was watching the live McGwire interview on MLB Network tonight, and when he was asked if LaRussa knew, McGwire said with a straight face: "not until this morning". rolleyes

Re: Mark McGwire comes clean [Re: Just Lou] #564664
01/12/10 12:42 AM
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Originally Posted By: Just Lou
I was watching the live McGwire interview on MLB Network tonight, and when he was asked if LaRussa knew, McGwire said with a straight face: "not until this morning". rolleyes


i wont be surprised if it was this morning 6 years ago lol

Re: Mark McGwire comes clean [Re: Just Lou] #564665
01/12/10 12:48 AM
01/12/10 12:48 AM
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Originally Posted By: Just Lou
I was watching the live McGwire interview on MLB Network tonight, and when he was asked if LaRussa knew, McGwire said with a straight face: "not until this morning". rolleyes


He had a lot of very strange answers. This is only going to get worse for him.


"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want." -Calvin and Hobbes
Re: Mark McGwire comes clean [Re: Blibbleblabble] #564666
01/12/10 01:29 AM
01/12/10 01:29 AM
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Just Lou Offline OP
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He also denies Canseco's allegations of shooting up together, but it seems like almost everything in Jose's book keeps turning up to be the truth.

Re: Mark McGwire comes clean [Re: Just Lou] #564676
01/12/10 09:10 AM
01/12/10 09:10 AM
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For all the ardent denials by some of the accused, none of the players mentioned have actually attempted to sue Canseco, correct? Or maybe more to the point, successfully sued Canseco.

Bud Selig is very much an accessory to the steroid abuse that has tainted MLB. I cannot believe this idiot has stayed commissioner for such a long time - he has set the game back in many ways during his tenure.

Re: Mark McGwire comes clean [Re: goombah] #564681
01/12/10 10:54 AM
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A couple points from Mike and Mike this morning that I found interesting...

- McGwire wanted to confess at the congressional hearings in 2005 in exchange for immunity. When he didn't get immunity, it led to his disastrous "I'm not here to talk about the past" testimony.

- The statute of limitations for potential perjury expired in 2006, which means McGwire could have come clean (if he wanted) as early as three years ago. Not coming out until now gives credence to the claims that he might be doing this due to his coming back/Hall of Fame vote.

Re: Mark McGwire comes clean [Re: Don Sicilia] #564684
01/12/10 11:13 AM
01/12/10 11:13 AM
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I have no problem keeping Sosa, Bonds, and McGwire out of the Hall. But let's keep it consistent. The doors to Cooperstown must also be kept closed to Manny Ramirez, A-Rod, Clemens and others, who demeaned the game through steroid use.

Roger Maris' career looks better every day.

Re: Mark McGwire comes clean [Re: klydon1] #564690
01/12/10 11:56 AM
01/12/10 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted By: klydon1
I have no problem keeping Sosa, Bonds, and McGwire out of the Hall. But let's keep it consistent. The doors to Cooperstown must also be kept closed to Manny Ramirez, A-Rod, Clemens and others, who demeaned the game through steroid use.


I don't think McGwire was a Hall of Famer to begin with. I know it's a complicated subject, but I feel Bonds and Clemens deserve to be there.

DB, that's an interesting point about the statute of limitations. I didn't know that it expired in 2006 and it makes me wonder why Bonds is still under investigation for perjury. Technically though, McGwire was the only guy who didn't lie during the congressional hearing, so he could have come clean at any time without perjuring himself.


"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want." -Calvin and Hobbes
Re: Mark McGwire comes clean [Re: Blibbleblabble] #564691
01/12/10 12:02 PM
01/12/10 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted By: Blibbleblabble


I don't think McGwire was a Hall of Famer to begin with. I know it's a complicated subject, but I feel Bonds and Clemens deserve to be there.

DB, that's an interesting point about the statute of limitations. I didn't know that it expired in 2006 and it makes me wonder why Bonds is still under investigation for perjury.


Steroids aside, you don't think McGwire belongs in the Hall? His career homerun ratio is the best the game has seen, and 583 homers would be an automatic, I think.

Bonds is under investigation for perjury, lying under oath to a Grand Jury, which is a lot more serious than using illegal steroids.

Re: Mark McGwire comes clean [Re: klydon1] #564693
01/12/10 12:11 PM
01/12/10 12:11 PM
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If McGwire is kept out, then I feel that by default so should Sosa. Those two are linked together.

One point I always found interesting re: Sosa. Thrice in his career he hit more than 61 homeruns, which was Roger Maris' magic number that had stood for more than 30 years. In NONE of those seasons in which Sammy had 61+ HR did he lead the league in HRs! crazy In 1998, he lost to McGwire for the league lead in HRs (70 to 66), in 1999 he lost again to McGwire (65-63) and in 2001 he lost out to Bonds (73-64). Sosa did lead the league 2000 and 2002 with 50 and 49 HRs, respectively.

Not only did Sosa most likely use 'roids, he also corked his bat. Those two reasons alone should keep him out of Cooperstown.

If Bonds gets in, it should be with a gigantic asterisk. I agree with Klydon that A-Rod, Manny & Clemens should be kept out too.

Re: Mark McGwire comes clean [Re: klydon1] #564695
01/12/10 12:18 PM
01/12/10 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted By: klydon1
Bonds is under investigation for perjury, lying under oath to a Grand Jury, which is a lot more serious than using illegal steroids.


Ah you're right, I got the Grand Jury mixed up with Congressional hearing.

Quote:
Steroids aside, you don't think McGwire belongs in the Hall? His career homerun ratio is the best the game has seen, and 583 homers would be an automatic, I think.


I think without steroids his homerun total might not have hit 500 (no way to say for sure of course) and his batting average of only .263 would have been lower due to less enhanced hand-eye-coordination and strength from steroids. Without steroids he would have been Dave Kingman.


"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want." -Calvin and Hobbes
Re: Mark McGwire comes clean [Re: Blibbleblabble] #564696
01/12/10 12:19 PM
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Even if the govenment's case against Bonds falls apart (which seems more and more likely), he's already been found guilty in the court of public opinion. When you factor his abusive personality into the mix, he won't have many friends when the vote comes around.

Sorry, Blib, while I agree that, even without steroids, Bonds would have been an all time great (500+ homers). With everything that's transpired, I don't think he'll ever get in.

How do you let Bonds in and not Palmeiro, or vice versa? I don't think the AP writers will want to open the floodgates to let any of these guys in. You let one in, you have to let them all in. I don't think it's gonna happen.

Clemens and Bonds won't be helped by the fact that neither one of them are very likable. Plus, the AP writers really seem to hate the smug defiance that both of them seem to share.

But you never know.


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: Mark McGwire comes clean [Re: goombah] #564697
01/12/10 12:21 PM
01/12/10 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted By: goombah


One point I always found interesting re: Sosa. Thrice in his career he hit more than 61 homeruns, which was Roger Maris' magic number that had stood for more than 30 years. In NONE of those seasons in which Sammy had 61+ HR did he lead the league in HRs! crazy In 1998, he lost to McGwire for the league lead in HRs (70 to 66), in 1999 he lost again to McGwire (65-63) and in 2001 he lost out to Bonds (73-64). Sosa did lead the league 2000 and 2002 with 50 and 49 HRs, respectively.



I didn't realize that. 193 homeruns in three years, but never leading his league once is amazing.

So far it looks like the main HR sluggers of the steroid era (roughly, 1988-2005), who have avoided the blemish of steroids are Griffey, Thomas and Thome.

Re: Mark McGwire comes clean [Re: klydon1] #564698
01/12/10 12:22 PM
01/12/10 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted By: klydon1


So far it looks like the main HR sluggers of the steroid era (roughly, 1988-2005), who have avoided the blemish of steroids are Griffey, Thomas and Thome.


And Piazza. There have been whispers, but nothing concrete.


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: Mark McGwire comes clean [Re: pizzaboy] #564700
01/12/10 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
Even if the govenment's case against Bonds falls apart (which seems more and more likely), he's already been found guilty in the court of public opinion. When you factor his abusive personality into the mix, he won't have many friends when the vote comes around.

Sorry, Blib, while I agree that, even without steroids, Bonds would have been an all time great (500+ homers). With everything that's transpired, I don't think he'll ever get in.

How do you let Bonds in and not Palmeiro, or vice versa? I don't think the AP writers will want to open the floodgates to let any of these guys in. You let one in, you have to let them all in. I don't think it's gonna happen.

Clemens and Bonds won't be helped by the fact that neither one of them are very likable. Plus, the AP writers really seem to hate the smug defiance that both of them seem to share.

But you never know.


I agree with you PB, that these guys probably won't get in. But personally, I don't believe that if one gets in they all get it. I do think the best of them will (Clemens, Bonds, A-Rod) eventually, it just might take thirty years. I still think Pete Rose has a chance to get in. People are forgiving, it just takes time.


"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want." -Calvin and Hobbes
Re: Mark McGwire comes clean [Re: klydon1] #564702
01/12/10 12:32 PM
01/12/10 12:32 PM
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goombah Offline
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Originally Posted By: klydon1
So far it looks like the main HR sluggers of the steroid era (roughly, 1988-2005), who have avoided the blemish of steroids are Griffey, Thomas and Thome.


Nobody will ever be able to convince me that Jim Thome bulked up naturally. I remember him as a rookie, playing 3rd base and being a skinny rail. This was, I believe, in 1993. By 1995, he was bulked up by a good 35 lbs and had to be moved to 1B by the start of 1997 after Cleveland acquired All-Star 3B Matt Williams.

I admit it's circumstantial evidence, but Thome was also teammates of two other highly suspected steroid users: Albert Belle and Manny Ramierez. Later in his career, Manny was suspended in 2009 for steroid violations. Belle was caught cheating with a cork in his bat and was long suspected of being a steriod user. Again, all the circumstantial evidence points to it: Belle was one of the moodiest athletes in all of sports, he was very big, and his career ended quickly with a degenerative hip condition that is not uncommon with steriod usage.

I do agree about Junior and the Big Hurt. Griffey Jr. is one of the saddest cases as injuries derailed what was going to be a record-setting career. Frank Thomas was just a behemoth of a man. He could have easily been cast as a NFL defensive lineman.

Re: Mark McGwire comes clean [Re: Blibbleblabble] #564704
01/12/10 12:34 PM
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Well, I agree that the next generation of writers (or even the one after) will be their best shot. But do any of them live to see themselves get in? That's the question.

Blib, given your age (around 30, right?), it must be really tough seeing Bonds (a probable childhood hero) fall from grace. I guess if the Giants had actually won a championship during you your lifetime the blow would be softened a bit, right?

But don't give up! I was almost 35 when the Rangers finally won the Stanley Cup back in '94. I'll probably be 135 before they win another one lol.


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: Mark McGwire comes clean [Re: pizzaboy] #564707
01/12/10 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
Blib, given your age (around 30, right?), it must be really tough seeing Bonds (a probable childhood hero) fall from grace. I guess if the Giants had actually won a championship during you your lifetime the blow would be softened a bit, right?


Quite the opposite. I never liked Bonds, but I respected him as a player. I've defended him in the past because people go so overboard ripping him, but that's because I saw him on a daily basis as opposed to just the most outrageous moments on national television. And I'm glad the Giants didn't win a championship while he was here because it would seem tainted now.

Me being a Giants fan has nothing to do with saying Bonds should be in the HoF. I'm saying he was by far the best of the era, as was Clemens. I never liked Clemens either. I'm saying they deserve to be there based on performance, not personality or what teams they played for. I know the numbers were inflated because of steroids, but I believe you have to compare the individual to the players of their era, not to the entire history of baseball.

Last edited by Blibbleblabble; 01/12/10 12:45 PM.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want." -Calvin and Hobbes
Re: Mark McGwire comes clean [Re: Blibbleblabble] #564708
01/12/10 12:50 PM
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Well then it's really too bad they didn't win it in '89. Will Clark may have been a bit of a racist country boy, but he was a Hell of a ballplayer lol.


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: Mark McGwire comes clean [Re: pizzaboy] #564710
01/12/10 12:56 PM
01/12/10 12:56 PM
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Yeah, and they lost to the steroid freak team of Canseco and McGwire tongue


"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want." -Calvin and Hobbes
Re: Mark McGwire comes clean [Re: Blibbleblabble] #564711
01/12/10 01:01 PM
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I was rooting for the Giants hard that year. My Dad has been a Giants fan since the Polo Grounds. In '89, he finally forgave them for leaving New York, so I really wanted them to win one for him. And now that Bonds is gone, he's back to rooting for them again (after the Mets, of course). So I'd like to see them win one in his lifetime, because he just turned 80 smile.


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: Mark McGwire comes clean [Re: pizzaboy] #564748
01/12/10 05:52 PM
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sad to say guys, but i think the flood gates has been open...remember rickey henderson could be another player that used roids (even canseco says that somebody in the hall has used steroids).

Re: Mark McGwire comes clean [Re: BAM_233] #564753
01/12/10 06:13 PM
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In a van down by the river!
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I am absolutely SHOCKED! I mean, who would have thought?




Long as I remember The rain been coming down.
Clouds of Mystery pouring Confusion on the ground.
Good men through the ages, Trying to find the sun;
And I wonder, Still I wonder, Who'll stop the rain.


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