Why would we weep? I will throw a party when the Chicago Outfit is no more.

Oh yeah? Even in the late 80s the FBI recorded a conversation between Outfit hitman Frank Schweih and a store owner he was extorting. Someone threw out the possibility that NY was trying to infiltrate Chicago and Schweih immeditely dismissed the idea, saying "Those [explatives] know not to come around here. Chicago has the worst reputation in the country."

When you guys had the moronic John Gotti making a "star" of himself until he finally got sent to prison for the rest of his miserable life Tony Accardo was dying peacefully at home having never gone to jail for even a single day.

We have the Yankees and real pizza.

Goodnight .

This isn't an official FBI report. And News reports are notorious for misinterpreted information.

I have an FBI chart of the outfit of 1983 which lists about 175 made members.

So we are to believe that they lost over 100 made guys in just a couple of years?

Tony Accardo was little more than a delusional gambler with Down syndrome. Don't even get me started on Accardo.

And what does John Gotti have to do with this conversation? The man had a bigger ego than Spencer Pratt. I agree, that was his fall. But at least he didn't have Down syndrome!

You've gotta be kidding. The "50 made members" came from a Chicago Crime Commission Report issued in 1990.

They never bothered to do another one after that.

The "news report" is the result of a direct conversation with the FBI. It's the Chicago Tribune. It's a fairly reputable publication. I'm not sure what else you would want. Maybe I'll get John DiFronzo on the phone and you can ask him.

Accardo was actually thought to be a criminal genius. But of course you probably don't care about the opinion of Bill Roemer, the most decorated FBI agent in history.

Roemer. Yes, the guy who wrote War Of The Godfathers, a fictional bullshit story the entire world laughed at. I wish I could forget it.

As a self proclaimed Outfit expert, how can you explain that they lost over 100 made members in just 7 years?

Friend of yours?

Let's not do this. People who come on these boards and claim to personally know famous wiseguys invite doubt. Really.

Welcome to the boards.

I'd love to get John in here and have him weigh in on this.

Should I call him John or Mr. DiFronzo?

yes ive heard that Luciano was about to go on foodstamps near the end. i have nothing against the chicago family what so ever. i mean i dont find them the most interesting.....but i find the luchesses interesting....but i dont go around making up stories about them or glorifying them....they were ranked 3rd....AT THEIR BEST! just because we find someone or a dif family interesting does not give us the right to make up numbers of riches or strength!

vinny if i were you i'd call him Johnny Di. i mean c'mon we all know real life mobsters on here. just the other night tommy shots called me and cried into the phone about how someone has been stealing his candy bars. he then held his ipod up to the phone and we fell asleep listening to bruce springsteen's the river

its times like these that i wish john gotti could get on these messages boards. he sure would call johnnynonos "a c**ks*cuking f*ck**g retard" i think even peter gotti could see this guys bull with his good eye!!!!!

I was being sarcastic about DiFronzo! Of course I don't know him.

Regarding "made guys" I would doubt there were that many "made guys" even in the early 80s. Your chart probably lists all of their associates.

id like to see these charts sonny

Yeah you're right about Petey Gotti. I remember one time me and Petey were playing chess at TG Graziano's place in Staten Island and it took Petey about a minute or two to realize I had checkmated him. You know he wanted to keep going, but after I pointed it out, he realized fairly quickly he was done. Me and TG were laughing our cocks off, but you know Petey man. He's got his own process.

Here's a bad one someone made. Most of those prominently featured are dead.

http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/7967/outfitt.gif

Sarcasm is only funny when it's smart, whereas you two were two dense to even understand what I was saying, which was fairly obvious:

I said "What do you want me to do have John DiFronzo call you" in response to someone posting that the Tribune article was not a valid source of information.

Capiche? Or would you like me to explain it in bullet points and all caps?

why would i wanna look at a bad one? anyone can make a bad one! ive seen some of sonny's ( i think it was sonny's) that were very well executed. as for ol one eyed pete.....i truely believe that story....ol petey hes just so damn quirky!

OK, let's take the pissing contest off the boards.

I can't believe you just said capiche. How the hell am I supposed to take you seriously now?

Again, sarcasm with the "capiche."

Oh well it looks like we're all about to get whacked--or as we say here 'knocked down'--like the Spilotros for causing too much trouble.

I won't warn you two again... take this crap off the boards!!

First you say they "dwarfed" all of the five families in New York, and now you say they didn't have that many made guys?

Here you can find the chart:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/38578368@N06/

This chart comes from the real deal forum, maybe you've heard of that?

ive been trying to get in touch with the realdeal forum. ivyleague gave me the guys email and he emailed me back and asked me what screen name so i replyed with the same one that i use here and he never got back to me...any thoughts as to why?

Yeah, same here. I emailed him and never got a response.

SB:

It's my opinion that the Outfit was the most powerful criminal organization in America under Capone, Accardo and Giancana. That would be the 20s and then the 50s-60s, diminishing steadily since.

To tell you the truth I don't know a lot about the East Coast mafia. I suppose we would have to decide on a metric of what "power" meant and then look for supporting data. From what I've read Capone's reign was singular and Acarrdo instituted a truly horrifying mechanism of corruption that essentially allowed the Outfit dominion over the city of Chicago, Vegas, Hollywood and all the traditional
mob rackets west of the Mississippi. The level of corruption, the unions they controlled, was mind-boggling. The Chief of Detectives of the Chicago Police--not once, but twice!--turned out to be a mob shill here. Judges were straight out bought and paid for, up until the early 90s. A known and high ranking mob member controlled the most prominent ward in the city for decades.

Like I said, at Capone's height he had around 3,000 people working with/for him, and was, personally, worth a billion dollars in nonadjusted money.

Tommy Accardo and Sam Giancana expanded the Outfit's influence politically to a degree that would shame most Americans. Just how far it went will never be fully known but, as I mentioned, it's a fact--an embarrassing one--that the CIA did really approach him to help with the Castro assassination.

Maybe NY's Five Families tentacles reached just as far. In the limited reading I've done on them, I never encountered that.