I dont believe the five New York Families are the strongest in the U.S.
I believe the Genovese Family is at the top.
"The Outfit" and the "Detroit Partnership" are strong also and have kept the rats and indictments to a minumum over the last century.Actually i think there in the top 3 familys when it comes to not having snitches.Genovese,Outfit,Partnership.
I dont think just cause your from N.Y. your the strongest as the Bonanno Family is weaker to me then Detroit or Chicago.
I would have rathere been "Made" in Detroit then the Colombos,Bonannos or the Lucchese Familys,etc.
All in all the LCN in the U.S. is still making enough $$$ to keep people in line for membership.

That may very well be true, Lucasi. But don't forget, the weakest New York family is still more likely to "have the ear" of the Genovese and Gambino families, than either of the Chicago or Detroit families. Their proximity to the stronger New York families makes them stronger by extension.

For instance, the Luccheses are in partnership with the Genoveses in many construction projects. Now let's say the Luccheses get into a beef with the Chicago Outfit over something silly. Sure, the Chicago Outfit is stronger than the Luccheses are on their own. But if the Genovese family gets involved (and they're going to if they're making money with the Luccheses), then that's all she wrote. There's no comparison.

The Luccheses have always had a friend in high places.
As mentioned, they partner the Genovese in some scams and before that they were practically married (Literally) to the Gambino's.

Lefty Ruggeiro even supposedly once said to Joe Pistone that "Chicago answers to New York"

I don't remember that quote but it's been a while since I read Pistone's book. I do remember Lefty saying that "Milwaukee answers to Chicago" when he was speaking of Frank Balisteri (sp).

Back in the day Chicago claimed hegemony over every activity or family west of Chicago and even some of the other midwestern groups.

I do remember Lefty saying that "Milwaukee answers to Chicago" when he was speaking of Frank Balisteri

Lefty continued the sentence by saying "......and Chicago answers to New York

Memory can be deceiving. I think we are both right and both wrong..

The quote about "Chicago being responsible to New York" was actually not from Lefty but from his capo Mike Sabella in the context of the arbitration of the aborted business deal between Conte and Frankie Bals.

Bals was not allowed by Chicago to enter into independent agreements with supposed NY mobsters. The evident compromise worked out between NY and Chicago would have been that since Frankie Bals agreed to the deal , if Conte had been a real mobster he would have been allowed to operate his business in Milwaukee but without any hindrance from the Milwaukee mobsters.

Given that Chicago nixed the deal it would seem to indicate that the Outfit remained independent.

Lefty also said that Kansas City, Cleveland and Detroit belonged to Frank. When Lefty was speaking of the Milwaukee Mob he said they were crazy and couldn't be controlled by NY or anyone else, only Chicago.

So I think that NY and Chicago were roughly equivalent in terms of authority. I certainly don't see Aiuppa or Accardo "answering" to NY.

I agree, Lilo. But let's keep things in the perspective of the original question: Which Family is currently the strongest? On that basis, I don't think that Chicago matches up to the strongest (namely the Genovese family) of the New York families anymore.

But again, you're right, Aiuppa and Accardo didn't take shit from anyone. For that matter, neither did Giancana.

I would definitely have to say the Genovese Family, the have the most made guys, and are the most secret of the New York Families, and staying off the radar is probably the biggest deal of today with the Feds, they have an endless source if they want to get somebody.

Who you personally would rather be made in has nothing to do with it. And rats, or the lack thereof, are not the only criteria. Even the smallest New York family is twice the size of the Chicago Outfit and four times the size of the Detroit family. And notice how you didn't even bring up the Gambinos, who are easily the #2 family in the U.S. behind the Genovese. You can go on wishful thinking and outdated thinking or you can go on the facts. Any of the five New York families are larger, more active, more diversified, and more expansive than any other family outside New York. And that includes Chicago and Detroit.

You see, this is part of the problem when people talk about the modern day Chicago mob. Inevitably, many of them start talking about Accardo and Aiuppa and other things or people that no longer apply. Last time I checked, they were both dead. But it's indicative of the fact that many people's view of the Outfit is outdated. The topic might be the Chicago mob of today but they are still looking at things how they were 30 or 40 years ago. Likewise, they start talking about how this city or that city answers to the Outfit. Families west of Chicago did at one time but there are really none left today to do so. There is no traditionally structured, viable family left in Milwaukee, St. Louis, Kansas City, Los Angeles, etc. If people want to talk about the modern day Outfit, they have to look at the modern day - i.e. within the last decade or so.

Why bring up the Gambinos?Just to type?We all know there 2nd in SIZE,ETC and have sometimes been the Top Dog in N.Y.C. above the Genovese Family and deserve much respect.
U can say what u want but what i see on "active soldiers" for Chicago/Detroit all the familys in NEW YORK are not twice the size as The OUTFIT and 4 Times the size of Detroit when U can Still see 100+ not deceased or shelved in Detroit and 200+ not deceased or shelved in Chicago.Genovese and the Gambinos are much larger but the other 3 familys are not each 4 times the size of Detroit or twice the size of Chicago.
I believe running a tight ship and staying out of the FBIs sights while still making plenty of $$$ is the sign of a Strong Family and the Detroit Partnership has done/did/does that.

Don't get bent out of shape.
The minor side discussion about who answered to whom came up in comments made by NY mobsters concerning Chicago-NY-Milwaukee relationships over thirty years ago. A clarification was offered concerning those comments-that's all.

First, I brought up the Gambinos because you and others didn't. You can't make a list of the top three families in the country without the Gambinos being on it. Because they're #2, both in New York and in the U.S. over all. Though they never surpassed the Genovese family, but did rival them in many respects for a time.

Second, even if every single made member of the Chicago and Detroit families were active on the street, any of the New York families would still have more guys on the street than they do. The Lucchese, Colombo, and Bonanno families each have a little over 100 members. That's 2x the size of the total membership of the Outfit and 4x the size of the Detroit family.

Like many do, you are looking at this exactly backwards. You think a family that barely gets any headlines or indictments in this day and age means they are stronger. Well if that's the case, the Los Angeles family must be thriving. It's the other way around. A more active family is going to be seen as a greater organized crime threat by law enforcement, which in turn means more indictments. There being less indictments in Chicago and Detroit doesn't mean these families just know how to stay under the radar. It means they are smaller and there is less activity by these families when compared to those in New York.

I'm honestly not trying to get bent out of shape. It's just that I've had these debates with people more time than I can count. Some of the most heated have been over the Chicago Outfit. And like I pointed out above, while I'm talking about the modern day Outfit, I'll often find that the person I'm talking to is talking about the Outfit of the 1950's and 1960's.

It's understandable to a point, I guess. Like most of us, they get their information from books. Problem is, most mob books are long after the fact, and therefore outdated. So they enter a discussion about the Chicago mob of today having just read Accardo: The Genuine Godfather or something like that and that's the image they have.

Meaning that the Feds have bigger fish to fry.

And don't forget that the anti-terrorism squad has taken a good deal of OC agents and reassigned them. So they're not likely to put much effort into prosecuting a glorified gang in the midwest.

While I'm not saying you're one of them, this is an explanation that is often used by those who try to overrate certain families. And I tell them the same thing every time. After 9/11, there was a widespread shakeup in the FBI as far as investigational priorities go. And that includes New York.

In the 1980's and 1990's there were about 350 FBI agents, plus 100 or so NYPD detectives, working full or part time on Mafia cases in New York. Many of them were temporarilly or permanently reassigned to anti-terrorism units after the 9/11 attacks. By 2005 that 450 figure had been reduced by roughly two-thirds. Now, there are only about 50 FBI agents currently on the five family squads. 12 for the Genovese family, plus several NYPD detectives. 12 for the Gambinos. And under 10 each for the Lucchese, Colombo, and Bonnano families.

So even in New York, where about 70% of the remaining mob membership is, they have been downgraded as a priority. Nevertheless, there has continued to be ongoing mob cases up to the present. The same can be said for families in New England, New Jersey, and Philadelphia; though obviously to a much smaller degree. So one can't really make the excuse that families in Chicago and Detroit are all but left alone by the feds now because they have other priorities and that's why there are less indictments.

I understand that. Maybe I should have worded it to include the New York families. The government has been far too bus with anti-terrorism to dedicate the same manpower to OC as they did pre-9/11.

I agree for sheer size the top two families are Genoveses and Gambinos, a lot of the families in the midwest are holding on to so many old soldiers, while these families are still thriving, Associates do a lot of work of work and make a lot of money for families and the more soldiers definitely more associates, soldiers have there own crews who kick up to them.

When it comes to size, here is a a generalized breakdown:

200 member range - Genovese, Gambino

100 member range - Lucchese, Colombo, Bonanno

50 member range - Chicago, New England, New Jersey, Philadelphia

25 member range - Buffalo, Detroit

10 member range - Cleveland, Tampa, Kansas City, Los Angeles

5 or less range - Rochester, Pittsburgh, NE PA, New Orleans, Milwaukee, St. Louis

Theres almost enough guys with the last names TOCCO and GIACALONE in Detroit to make your estimate of 25 members?Actually between 15-18 "made" guys with just those last names that are active in the Detroit Partnership/Combination.I believe your size estimate to be unaccurate as far as Detroit and a few others.
Also we know that every city has atleast a few "Made" men to take care of Business even if its just a small crew from another Family like Detroit taking care of Business in some spots in Canada,etc and other familys as well or for instance the Bonanno crew in Massachuetts,etc.Every city who has lost there Major family has had another family pick up and take whats left to make $$$ on even if its only a couple of men taking care of business.Theres always strip clubs,gambling,loansharking,etc.

I go with the official size estimates put out by the FBI and other law enforcement agencies. And I do so while looking at consistent patterns over an extended period of time. You choose to ignore official estimates in favor of your own assumptions, which are in turn based on wishful thinking. That's been obvious for a long time. Not everyone will the last name Tocco or Giacalone should just automatically be assumed to be a made guy.

If i assumed everyone named Tocco and Giacalone in Detroit and the surrounding cities in Michigan were "made" i could fill this page.Look up all the Toccos in the M.D.O.C. offender search and none are mobbed up or so we know.
The only one that has the official estimate of the Detroit Partnership is the Hierarchy.Everyone elses #s are a guess and what info u can dig up.Certainly there are "Made" members not everyone knows about.

Jack Tocco-Boss
Vito Tocco-Jacks son
Anthony "Tawn" Tocco
Paul Tocco-Lieutenant
Peter "Big Pete" Tocco-Lieutenant
Joey Tocco
Sam "Junior" Tocco
Peter "Specs" Tocco-Capo
Salvatore "Mops" Tocco
Peter"Little Pete" Tocco
Jack "Little Jackie" Tocco
Anthony"Little Tony" Tocco
Vito Giacalone-Underboss
Jack "Jackie the Kid" Giacalone-Street Boss
Joseph "Little Joey Jack" Giacalone-stationed in Flint,Mi
Joseph "Joey Jack" Giacalone
Anthony "Fat Tony" Giacalone-Capo
Jack "Jackie the Nose" Giacalone

While they will never be exactly on, the FBI has approximate numbers on every family. This comes from decades of investigation on their part. Once again, 15 years ago the feds had the Detroit family at 30 members at most. Fast forward to the present, some have died and some more may have been made, but it's likely that the current total is not over 30. But you ignore all this in favor of different lists you see on the internet because you want to go with whatever shows a bigger number. You're not looking at this objectively.

If i wasnt checking on deceased and shelved members i would have put Anthony"Tony Jack" Giacalone Sr.,,Nove Tocco-Detroits only "made" member to become FBI informant and testify,Joe Tocco-Nove Toccos brother whom i believe is shelved or still a "Soldier" and their Father Paul Tocco-Lieutenant who i listed but maybe shelved after his son Nove Tocco Testified or hes still a "Soldier",William "Black Bill" Tocco,Paul Tocco Sr whos father was slain member Joe Tocco,Anthony "Tawn" Toccos Son William "Billy Boy" Tocco who commited suicide in 2007,Etc.
Every Name i have researched for being dead or shelved,etc before and after they were posted.
Also Detroit has members whom they call "Soldiers" and "Lieutenants" who are not Italian, or only on there mothers side.Those i havent even listed on my main post of members.
My list was compiled by many other list,books,internet sites,street knowledge,News articles,archives,etc not just 1 big imaginary list.
I have seen more info to Objectively make me believe that there is well over 30 "Made" Members.If u added the Ruggirellos,Bommaritos,Palazollas,Corrados,Licavolis u would be over 30 "Made" members right there not counting the Zerillis and all the others.Anyone can check this post if u think im mistaken.?
I dont care in all reality how BIG The Partnership is i just research it because of my interest in all that is mafia and because of previously living in the city at one time and all over the NUMEROUS cities that surround DETROIT and of course because my moms is Italian and has lots of storys that originally sparked my interest.

Which ever way you cut it, you are putting your own personal research over FBI estimates. And that's just absurd. Associates is another topic completely and the feds say they have as much as a few hundred. But as far as formally inducted members go, it's likely not above 30 at this point. And the relatively small amount of activity there bares that out.

I find it very interesting that the partnership is growing, maybe the feds and cops are more worried about the street gangs and drugs in Detroit, and the mob was put on the back burner, I need to know besides Motor City, was information can I get on The Partnership/

Who said the Detroit family is growing? I suppose some would believe that if they believe the inflated numbers for that family that float around. At best they are what they were 15 years ago. There's no substantial evidence they've gotten bigger since then.

Incidentally, which of the 5 NY families is the smallest?
Colombo or Luchesse?

I haven't come across much information about Detroit until I read posts, I would think they would be shrinking just like every other modern Italian family, but I don't get much info, so either they are very secret, or growing weaker, maybe both.

The three smaller families - Lucchese, Colombo, and Bonanno - are all roughly the same size with slightly over 100 members each according to most estimates.