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Apollonia #558837
10/28/09 05:17 AM
10/28/09 05:17 AM
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DiMaggio68 Offline OP
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Apollonia was the Sicilian princess Michael Corleone found while hiking with his bodyguards Fabrizio and Calo in the hills of Corleone, Sicily. You could tell how much Michael loved Apollonia Vitelli- Corleone by the way Michael explained her murder to his son and daughter after Anthony sang that Sicilian song to him. The song clearly reminded him of her. His bodyguard Fabrizio was the guy behind her murder. The other bodyguard Calo became the leader of the Sicilian crew of the Corleone family. I think Calo became the caporegime after Don Tommosino was killed in GF3. I also think Apollonia would have been a lot better for Michael than Kay ever was. Apollonia was his true love.

Re: Apollonia [Re: DiMaggio68] #558848
10/28/09 08:06 AM
10/28/09 08:06 AM
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Berlin, Germany
Danito Offline
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Original geschrieben von: DiMaggio68
The other bodyguard Calo became the leader of the Sicilian crew of the Corleone family.

Is that really what we are supposed to believe? I mean, Calo appears a little dumb. For example when he just repeats what Fabrizio tells ("more Greek than Italian").

Re: Apollonia [Re: Danito] #558849
10/28/09 09:11 AM
10/28/09 09:11 AM
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Posts: 773
Pittsburgh, PA
The Last Woltz Offline
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Originally Posted By: Danito
Originally Posted By: DiMaggio68
The other bodyguard Calo became the leader of the Sicilian crew of the Corleone family.

Is that really what we are supposed to believe? I mean, Calo appears a little dumb. For example when he just repeats what Fabrizio tells ("more Greek than Italian").


If I recall correctly, the novel describes Calo as being little more than an aminal, intellectually. Hardly leadership material.

Also, GFIII makes clear that he works for Don Thomassino. "My master is dead. Blood calls for blood."


"A man in my position cannot afford to be made to look ridiculous!"
Re: Apollonia [Re: Danito] #558851
10/28/09 09:50 AM
10/28/09 09:50 AM
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DiMaggio68 Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Danito
Originally Posted By: DiMaggio68
The other bodyguard Calo became the leader of the Sicilian crew of the Corleone family.

Is that really what we are supposed to believe? I mean, Calo appears a little dumb. For example when he just repeats what Fabrizio tells ("more Greek than Italian").


You could be right, but I thought he was a caporegime because the way he conducted himself when Don Tommosino (old man in wheelchair) was murdered by the guy trying to look like a priest in GF3. He acted like a leader when talking to Michael after interupting his dinner with Kay. I thought he took over the leadership after the murder.

Re: Apollonia [Re: DiMaggio68] #558870
10/28/09 12:55 PM
10/28/09 12:55 PM
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Calo did get smarter in GFIII than he seemed to be in GFII. He always worked for Don Tomassino. Michael went to Sicily under Tomassino's protection, who in turn paid for his bodyguards.

As for Appollonia, there i no question she would have been better for Mike than Kay who did nothing but whine about Michael's business (but didn't mind the lifestyle it brought), and tell him what an a**hole he was. Appollonia would have understood Michael, and perhaps through that she may have had the ability to influence him in a way that would have prevented him from becomeing the total paranoid he wa by the end of GFII.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: Apollonia [Re: DiMaggio68] #558886
10/28/09 03:30 PM
10/28/09 03:30 PM
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Yurkin Offline
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Originally Posted By: DiMaggio68
I think she would have been a lot better for Michael then Kay ever was. Apollonia was his true love.


I agree 100%. Kay wasnt Italian. Let alone, Sicilian. She never left anything alone. Apollonia wouldve been a better suit for him. Just like Carmella (Momma Corleone) was for Vito.
Plus, she was prettier! grin tongue lol

Re: Apollonia [Re: Yurkin] #558894
10/28/09 06:36 PM
10/28/09 06:36 PM
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MI
Lilo Offline
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But Michael "lurved" Kay. He convinced her to take those night time college classes. And Michael got over Appolonia quickly because it was nothing a few megavitamins couldn't cure. lol


"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives."
Winter is Coming

Now this is the Law of the Jungle—as old and as true as the sky; And the wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the wolf that shall break it must die.
As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk, the Law runneth forward and back; For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.
Re: Apollonia [Re: dontomasso] #558899
10/28/09 07:43 PM
10/28/09 07:43 PM
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Berlin, Germany
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Original geschrieben von: dontomasso
Calo did get smarter in GFIII than he seemed to be in GFII.

Oops! I thought Calo and Johnny Fontane were the only characters who only appeared in GF and GFIII but not in GFII...

Re: Apollonia [Re: dontomasso] #559003
10/30/09 12:28 AM
10/30/09 12:28 AM
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Posts: 372
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DiMaggio68 Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: dontomasso
Calo did get smarter in GFIII than he seemed to be in GFII. He always worked for Don Tomassino. Michael went to Sicily under Tomassino's protection, who in turn paid for his bodyguards.

As for Appollonia, there i no question she would have been better for Mike than Kay who did nothing but whine about Michael's business (but didn't mind the lifestyle it brought), and tell him what an a**hole he was. Appollonia would have understood Michael, and perhaps through that she may have had the ability to influence him in a way that would have prevented him from becomeing the total paranoid he wa by the end of GFII.


So Calo had his own mafia family? Yeah, Kay sure gave Mike a bad time. She could be a real bruta. That is for sure.

Re: Apollonia [Re: Lilo] #559036
10/30/09 01:33 PM
10/30/09 01:33 PM
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New Jersey
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Originally Posted By: Lilo
But Michael "lurved" Kay. He convinced her to take those night time college classes. And Michael got over Appolonia quickly because it was nothing a few megavitamins couldn't cure. lol


Nice Annie Hall reference there.... grin

Anyway, the obvious comparison of Michael's wives is such a crucial element of the story. Of course Appolonia would've made a better 'Mafia' wife (I love the passage in the novel describing her first weeks/months of married life). But the initial relationship and eventual marriage to Kay is needed to emphasize the transition between the once rebellous Michael who wanted nothing to do with his father's 'Business'...and the hardened Don we came to know & love.

While we are not supposed to be nuts about Annie-er, I mean Kay, she is really the conscience of the story...

Apple

Last edited by AppleOnYa; 10/30/09 01:35 PM.

A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.

- THOMAS JEFFERSON

Re: Apollonia [Re: AppleOnYa] #559050
10/30/09 07:53 PM
10/30/09 07:53 PM
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MI
Lilo Offline
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Originally Posted By: AppleOnYa
Originally Posted By: Lilo
But Michael "lurved" Kay. He convinced her to take those night time college classes. And Michael got over Appolonia quickly because it was nothing a few megavitamins couldn't cure. lol


Nice Annie Hall reference there.... grin

Apple


Couldn't resist.. lol


"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives."
Winter is Coming

Now this is the Law of the Jungle—as old and as true as the sky; And the wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the wolf that shall break it must die.
As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk, the Law runneth forward and back; For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.
Re: Apollonia [Re: Lilo] #559073
10/31/09 03:51 AM
10/31/09 03:51 AM
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Posts: 372
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DiMaggio68 Offline OP
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Yeah clap

Re: Apollonia [Re: DiMaggio68] #559114
11/01/09 03:13 PM
11/01/09 03:13 PM
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I believe that Michael really did love Kay before the Sol/Mac shootings--there's a nice deleted scene of them cavorting playfully in a hotel room that shows real affection. But there's no doubt: Apollonia truly hit him with the "thunderbolt," and it was love at first sight. I think part of Michael's fall for Apollonia was his embrace of his Sicilian heritage after he became part of the family by rescuing Vito at the hospital and whacking Sol and Mac. The traditional Sicilian courtship and wedding shows it.

His wooing of Kay after he returned to the US struck me as cold and businesslike--as if he were adding another possession to his portfolio of "legitimacy." Kay's WASP credentials, values and manners were, to Michael, a certified sign of "legitimacy." (In the novel, Michael's disappointed that Kay took instructions in the Church and raised the kids as Catholics--he preferred them to be Protestants because it was more "American.") I believe he loved Kay in his way, but the loss of Apollonia withdrew a lot of his emotional capital.

This raises another question: In III, just before Calo tells him that Don Tomassino's dead, he begs Kay to "forgive" him. Do you think that was his only motivation? Or do you think he wanted Kay to remarry him to cement his "legitimacy"?


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Apollonia [Re: Turnbull] #559232
11/02/09 08:37 PM
11/02/09 08:37 PM
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The Ravenite Social Club
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Originally Posted By: Turnbull

.....he begs Kay to "forgive" him. Do you think that was his only motivation? Or do you think he wanted Kay to remarry him to cement his "legitimacy"?


I believe that Michael was being sincere when he asked Kay to forgive him. Kay was the one person who could 'rattle' (for lack of a better word) Michael's emotions. Kay was the one person who knew how to push Michael's buttons. I think that as Michael got older, by the time GFIII rolled around, he could not live with the thought that Kay despised him. Deep down he knew what he had done to her over the years was wrong. Deep down he always loved Kay. He longed for and needed her forgiveness.



Don Cardi cool

Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.




Re: Apollonia [Re: Turnbull] #559262
11/03/09 04:04 PM
11/03/09 04:04 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline
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Originally Posted By: Turnbull
His wooing of Kay after he returned to the US struck me as cold and businesslike--as if he were adding another possession to his portfolio of "legitimacy." Kay's WASP credentials, values and manners were, to Michael, a certified sign of "legitimacy." (In the novel, Michael's disappointed that Kay took instructions in the Church and raised the kids as Catholics--he preferred them to be Protestants because it was more "American.") I believe he loved Kay in his way, but the loss of Apollonia withdrew a lot of his emotional capital.

This raises another question: In III, just before Calo tells him that Don Tomassino's dead, he begs Kay to "forgive" him. Do you think that was his only motivation? Or do you think he wanted Kay to remarry him to cement his "legitimacy"?





I agree with the idea that when he proposed to Kay it was more businesslike. Michael had no social life, and she was the logical choice. I am sure Vito told him it was time for him to start a family and that he would no longer object to his marrying that American he brought to the wedding. I think Mike was in love with the idea of Kay and the veneer of legitimacy she brought to the table, but not Kay herself. Look how he treated her when she tried to see her children in Tahoe. That is not love.

I also think in Sicily he wanted her forgiveness and her declaration of love as a vindication (they deleted a love making scene from the movie) and nothing more. I think he accepted that she was married to someone else, and no I do not think he would whack Douglas to get Kay back.


BTW has anyone ever done a Kay or Apollonia poll (like Mary Anne or Ginger) ?


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: Apollonia [Re: dontomasso] #559290
11/03/09 08:34 PM
11/03/09 08:34 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
AppleOnYa Offline
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Originally Posted By: dontomasso
...I think Mike was in love with the idea of Kay and the veneer of legitimacy she brought to the table, but not Kay herself. Look how he treated her when she tried to see her children in Tahoe. That is not love.


Michael did love Kay, in the best way that he could after what had happened in Sicily. But that is only because of the relationship they already shared. Had Michael not known Kay prior to Appolonia, then he would probably never have been able to meet someone new.

He lover her, that is, until she told him that she had aborted his child. Why would he feel any love for her after that? By the time of that visit with the children, she was lucky to have been allowed in his house.

Apple


A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.

- THOMAS JEFFERSON

Re: Apollonia [Re: AppleOnYa] #559293
11/03/09 08:46 PM
11/03/09 08:46 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
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OH, VA, KY
Mignon Offline
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Originally Posted By: AppleOnYa
He lover her, that is, until she told him that she had aborted his child. Why would he feel any love for her after that? By the time of that visit with the children, she was lucky to have been allowed in his house.
Apple


He did slam the door in her face.


Dylan Matthew Moran born 10/30/12


Re: Apollonia [Re: Mignon] #559304
11/03/09 09:40 PM
11/03/09 09:40 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
AppleOnYa Offline
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Yes, and Kay's tearful reaction to that has always been laughable.

Here she was fully prepared to leave him and take the children with her, blurts out that she purposely had his unborn child killed so that another one of his 'sons' wouldn't be brought into the world, then states that she feels no love for him at 'this moment'.

Then later, while visiting her children who of course she is not permitted to take from him....she dawdles and prolongs her goodbyes despite Connie's plea's that 'He's coming...', knowing full well that he does not want to see her face and she had better be gone by the time he gets home.

So why would she run away in tears when he slams the back door in her face?

Apple


A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.

- THOMAS JEFFERSON

Re: Apollonia [Re: AppleOnYa] #559306
11/03/09 09:50 PM
11/03/09 09:50 PM
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New York
Sicilian Babe Offline
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New York
Because as an "outsider", she could never truly understand the depths of Michael's ruthlessness.


President Emeritus of the Neal Pulcawer Fan Club
Re: Apollonia [Re: Sicilian Babe] #559310
11/03/09 10:09 PM
11/03/09 10:09 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
AppleOnYa Offline
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By this time, Kay was not an 'outsider'...probably wished she was, though.

Having an abortion for the sole purpose of making sure no more of your husband's children are brought into the world...precisely BECAUSE of the profession he is in...indicates a pretty good understanding of the depths of his ruthlessness, AND the ruthlessness of the 'Business'.


A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.

- THOMAS JEFFERSON

Re: Apollonia [Re: AppleOnYa] #559320
11/04/09 07:23 AM
11/04/09 07:23 AM
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Berlin, Germany
Danito Offline
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Original geschrieben von: AppleOnYa
So why would she run away in tears when he slams the back door in her face?Apple


Love.

Re: Apollonia [Re: Danito] #559367
11/04/09 02:19 PM
11/04/09 02:19 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
AppleOnYa Offline
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Originally Posted By: Danito
Love.


In part, possibly (what little love was left).

Mostly a meltdown at the tables having been so drastically turned.

Kay wasn't quite that upset when announcing to Michael that she & the children was about to leave him.


A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.

- THOMAS JEFFERSON


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