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Does anyone here think maybe Sonny would have truly been the better Don? #34741
11/01/05 09:31 PM
11/01/05 09:31 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 572
Jimmy Buffer Offline OP
Underboss
Jimmy Buffer  Offline OP
Underboss
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 572
I happened to think of this while reading some of the very insightful posts that have been written in the past several weeks. I haven't been here as long as some of you, but these past couple weeks have been the best the reads I've ever witnessed. I think that is a testament to everyone, but specifically Christina's Way. Keep up the good work!

Now, to my question. I think it is pretty much the consensus here that Michael really was the best choice to inherit the Corleone Empire. Vito even admits such, and who are we to argue with him? With all the talk about how Michael failed miserably in trying to become the beloved figure that his father is protrayed as, however, it made me wonder if Sonny really wouldn't have been the better don? He wouldn't have made the Corleone business empire as successful as Michael, but from a pure Corleone "family" standpoint, does anyone think he could have maybe had a more successful run than Michael. He seemed to really hold true to the same ideals as his father for the most part. Having a mistress being an exception, but even straight-laced Tom had a mistress. I guess maybe a good way of stating the point I'm trying to get across is that Sonny might not have been the better "Don", but he might have been the better "head" of the Corleone Family.

Of course the counter to what I'm trying to say is that Sonny's temper would have never allowed him to stay in control as Don for any extended period of time anyways. I think being in a position of power changes people. Look at how much Michael metamorphasized throughout the trilogy. I think it is unfair to simply judge Sonny based on his actions as head of the family during Vito's healing period. While he proved to be uncapable during this time as Don, I think under different circumstances he could have maintained Vito's empire with the aid of his life-long friend Tom Hagen. I don't think he would have had the success or vision of Michael, but I think he would have done well enough to "been so loved" as Michael put it in Part III.


There is no theory of evolution. Just a list of creatures Chuck Norris has allowed to live.
Re: Does anyone here think maybe Sonny would have truly been the better Don? #34742
11/01/05 09:57 PM
11/01/05 09:57 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238
The Ravenite Social Club
Don Cardi Offline
Caporegime
Don Cardi  Offline
Caporegime

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238
The Ravenite Social Club
I think that Sonny would have been loved the way that his father was loved. Sonny had a temper, a big temper, but he also had a heart, a bigger heart, especially when it came to those he loved. Sonny probably would have gotten himself killed sooner or later because of his hastiness when he lost his temper. I think that Sonny may not have built the family, business wise, to the successful status that Michael did, but at the same time Sonny would have had the love of his family and those around him. Sonny wouldn't have died a lonely man.

The only way that I could see Sonny bringing the Corleone empire to the successful business status that Michael had brought it to, was if Michael was Sonny's Consigliere or his underboss. So bottom line is that in either situation, Michael was the son that was needed to bring success and power back to the family.


Don Cardi cool



Don Cardi cool

Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.




Re: Does anyone here think maybe Sonny would have truly been the better Don? #34743
11/01/05 10:56 PM
11/01/05 10:56 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 61
A little bit of everywhere
K
Karl9905 Offline
Button
Karl9905  Offline
K
Button
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 61
A little bit of everywhere
I think that many people forget that Michael had Don Vito giving him a lot of help. He worked and trained Michael hard knowing that the transfer of power must be done in a certain time.
We only see Sonny playing around because all the real work is being done by Don Vito and Tom. Then when the shit hits the fan we see Sonny in the flying by the seat of his pants mode, with Tom as lead with the two Capo's. One who couldn't really be trusted right away.
Could Sonny have done the same job if he was given the same help, the same training, in the same time with his father at his side knowing how important things had now become. We will never really know, because we have this picture of Sonny as a hothead and a guy with more muscle and temper then brains. I don't think most people can see pass this image.

Karl cool

Re: Does anyone here think maybe Sonny would have truly been the better Don? #34744
11/01/05 11:33 PM
11/01/05 11:33 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,098
Existential Well
svsg Offline
Underboss
svsg  Offline
Underboss
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,098
Existential Well
Quote
Originally posted by Karl9905:
I don't think most people can see pass this image.

Karl cool
You are right. But in the novel, Sonny does a great job for until about an year after his father was attacked. Sonny was not really the brainiest, but not all the gangsters are really intelligent. But to head a family may really need some brain.

Re: Does anyone here think maybe Sonny would have truly been the better Don? #34745
11/02/05 11:20 AM
11/02/05 11:20 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 39
London
dburghardt Offline
Wiseguy
dburghardt  Offline
Wiseguy
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 39
London
Good question - lots to think about.
I guess it depends which direction you think the family should have took.
It would have been Sonny's decision to get into drugs earlier, and possibly more lucratively than they did - as Tom said - it was the decision of the future. That could have surely strengthened the clout of the family. It's possible too that as years went by, he might have gotten a better handle on his temper.


The dogs on mainstreet howl because they understand...
Re: Does anyone here think maybe Sonny would have truly been the better Don? #34746
11/02/05 12:46 PM
11/02/05 12:46 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,518
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,518
AZ
The film implies (and the novel flat-out states) that Vito didn't think Sonny would make a worthy successor. Even before Vito was shot, we saw that Sonny was inattentive when Tom came back from California with his report on Woltz and Sollozzzo--and committed the near-fatal (to Vito) mistake of shooting his mouth off in the Sollozzo meeting. That's not the stuff of Donship. His failure to see that his beating of Carlo would set up the trap he fell into was another, literally fatal, mistake. Sooner, rather than later, he would have screwed himself--and the rest of the family with him.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Does anyone here think maybe Sonny would have truly been the better Don? #34747
11/02/05 01:02 PM
11/02/05 01:02 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 33
[greensboro|nc]
ability Offline
Wiseguy
ability  Offline
Wiseguy
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 33
[greensboro|nc]
Sonny would have been a VERY interesting Don. Better than Michael... I don't know.

Sonny's temper would have made it hard for there to ever have a period of peace. And I couldn't see Sonny staying on top for long. His temper would have led him to a horrible decision out of anger, and he would have been taken out (most likely like he WAS on GF 1).

Re: Does anyone here think maybe Sonny would have truly been the better Don? #34748
11/02/05 10:40 PM
11/02/05 10:40 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 564
Cristina's Way Offline
Underboss
Cristina's Way  Offline
Underboss
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 564
I'd like to thank Jimmy Buffer for giving me an "honourable mention" in his post introducing this topic. I didn't even think that all these experienced members with hundreds -- make that thousands -- of posts would notice me. You sure know how to make a gal feel welcome. wink wink

The posts sure have been great recently -- but I thought they were ALWAYS great; that's why I signed up smile . I think ALL the members have been really inspired lately with new ideas and things to talk about.

I don't think I can address this question about Sonny as Don any better than what the others have already said. In fact, my answer would be the "wimpy" way out: I don't know. smile cool

Michael probably had qualities deep inside him that came to the fore after his appointment as Don (violence, ambition, leadership). But he also employed his more outward traits (intelligence, discipline, seriousness) in his work. Perhaps Sonny would have likewise found hidden attributes (introspection? work ethic? duty? greed?). Then again, he may continue to rely on those traits which were always visible (temper, action, energy). Would he be able to balance these qualities any better than Michael did? The degree of change (or lack of it) in Sonny would probably determine his fate as head of the family.

He could become beloved and feared, like his father Vito. Or he may wind up feared only, surrounded by "yes men" and family members who stay close out of duty or only for their inheritance -- people telling him what he wants to hear, making him blind to dangers on the horizon. Conceivably, he could wind up alone like Michael, his wife having left him because of his infidelities and his children having become estranged from him for the hurt he's caused their mother. On the other hand, his fate could very well be to live his last years in the company his wife, children and grandchildren. The final outcome, I suppose, will depend on how life as the Don changes him.

So instead of giving a good answer like everyone else did, and analyzing what kind of Don I think Sonny would have been based on what we know of him before he died, I'm going to wimp out and say, "Anything is possible." wink wink

Re: Does anyone here think maybe Sonny would have truly been the better Don? #34749
11/03/05 01:07 AM
11/03/05 01:07 AM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,518
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,518
AZ
Quote
Originally posted by Cristina's Way:
On the other hand, his fate could very well be to live his last years in the company his wife, children and grandchildren. The final outcome, I suppose, will depend on how life as the Don changes him.

Sonny had his chance at "life as the Don." He was Acting Don while Vito recuperated. His "last years"--if he even lasted more than one year--didn't last very long. Life as the Don didn't change his fatal hot-headedness.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Does anyone here think maybe Sonny would have truly been the better Don? #34750
11/08/05 05:46 PM
11/08/05 05:46 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline
Consigliere to the Stars
dontomasso  Offline
Consigliere to the Stars

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
Please everyone don't jump all over me for this....but I have heard the Bush family referred to as the WASP Corleones. They compare Dubya to Sonny, Jeb to Michael, Doro to Connie and Marvin to Fredo.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."


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