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lampone's secret regime #557190
10/13/09 01:20 AM
10/13/09 01:20 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 102
New York
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Louren_Lampone Offline OP
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Louren_Lampone  Offline OP
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Made Member
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Posts: 102
New York
why did the Don and Michael have Rocco put together a secret regime? what was the regime supposed to be used for?


"Now, that plane goes to Miami."
"That's right. That's where I want it met."
Re: lampone's secret regime [Re: Louren_Lampone] #557231
10/13/09 11:19 AM
10/13/09 11:19 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline
Consigliere to the Stars
dontomasso  Offline
Consigliere to the Stars

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
It was kept secret so the other families continued to believe the Corleones were weaker than they really were. To pull off the killings of the heads of the five families the way they did, Michael needed to be a lot stronger than he was when he returned from Sicily. Also, once it became clear that either Tessio or Clemenza would betray Michael the Lampone regime was absolutely critical.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: lampone's secret regime [Re: dontomasso] #557303
10/13/09 06:37 PM
10/13/09 06:37 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,718
Berlin, Germany
Danito Offline
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Danito  Offline
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Berlin, Germany
Original geschrieben von: dontomasso
Also, once it became clear that either Tessio or Clemenza would betray Michael the Lampone regime was absolutely critical.

I don't believe it was "clear that either Tessio or Clemenza would betray Michael". Lampone with his powerful regime would know that he held a key position. If Paulie could betray Vito, why couldn't Rocco betray Michael? And if you're right about the covering of Michael's strength, why not letting Tessio build up a secret regime? If Tessio had known what was going on, he probably wouldn't have betrayed Michael.

Re: lampone's secret regime [Re: Danito] #557307
10/13/09 07:24 PM
10/13/09 07:24 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,019
Texas
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olivant Offline
olivant  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,019
Texas
But that's the point D. Tessio had to have a reason not to betray the Corleones. That's certainly not loyalty. Tessio and Clemenza were Vito's people. Despite the fact that Lampone came out of Clemenza's regime, it was Mike who gave him his command. That bound him to Mike and minimized his betrayal potential. In the end, Mike had to make a choice about whom to trust.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: lampone's secret regime [Re: olivant] #557342
10/13/09 09:19 PM
10/13/09 09:19 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,508
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Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

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I think that line about Rocco building a secret regime was careless writing. Rocco was Clemenza's man, not Michael's. And it would be difficult for Rocco to build a secret regime under Clemenza's nose without Clem knowing about it. Since at that time Michael didn't know who would betray him, it would be a signal to Clem that he didn't trust him.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: lampone's secret regime [Re: Turnbull] #557346
10/13/09 09:28 PM
10/13/09 09:28 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,019
Texas
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olivant Offline
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Texas
As I posted above TB, it was Mike who gave Rocco his command, not Clemenza. Thus, his loyalty would be to Mike. Also, the building of the regime was a "secret."


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: lampone's secret regime [Re: olivant] #557385
10/14/09 11:06 AM
10/14/09 11:06 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline
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dontomasso  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
When you think about it what Michael was doing in addition to making the family stronger covertly, was bringing "his people" into positions of power in anticipation of Vito's imminent death. That's generally what happens when any new CEO takes over a company. Clem and Tess were "Vito's men" and their loyalty was to him, not Michael. With the rise of Rocco and Neri, what was happening was Rocco got a promotion by Michael, and Neri was 100% Michael's man. That's why those were the two who went with Michael to Tahoe, and why Michael left Clem (succeded by Frankie) back in NY to run the olove oil business.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: lampone's secret regime [Re: dontomasso] #557427
10/14/09 02:17 PM
10/14/09 02:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
Lilo Offline
Lilo  Offline

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
Clemenza was not as smart as Tessio, but you would think he would have had to known something was up. Rocco would have gone from being Clemenza's new factotum to not being available to Clemenza very much at all.

That Clemenza and Tessio are both worried that Michael won't give them permission to recruit new men show that they were probably unaware of Rocco's new crew.

Rocco's new people would have had to make a living somehow. In the book they are "on payroll" but Tom thinks they make too much money for their alleged jobs and figures out the deal. In the movie would they have been responsible for their own livelihood? How were Rocco and Mike binding these new guys to them?


"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives."
Winter is Coming

Now this is the Law of the Jungle—as old and as true as the sky; And the wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the wolf that shall break it must die.
As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk, the Law runneth forward and back; For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.
Re: lampone's secret regime [Re: Lilo] #557436
10/14/09 03:25 PM
10/14/09 03:25 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,019
Texas
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olivant Offline
olivant  Offline
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Posts: 15,019
Texas
You answered your own question: they were salaried. It is not clear if they were permitted to engage in any other money making activities that could expose their association with Rocco, however.

Last edited by olivant; 10/14/09 03:26 PM.

"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: lampone's secret regime [Re: Turnbull] #1034990
05/25/22 12:26 AM
05/25/22 12:26 AM
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 757
Australia
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Lana Offline
The Hunted One
Lana  Offline
The Hunted One
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Underboss
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 757
Australia
Originally Posted by Turnbull
I think that line about Rocco building a secret regime was careless writing. Rocco was Clemenza's man, not Michael's. And it would be difficult for Rocco to build a secret regime under Clemenza's nose without Clem knowing about it. Since at that time Michael didn't know who would betray him, it would be a signal to Clem that he didn't trust him.
Very difficult indeed
Besides how would Rocco explain his absence / having little to no time for any jobs Clemenza would have wanted Rocco to do....

couple more threads [could be others] which maybe of interest
Secret Regimes
Rocco's secret regime

Re: lampone's secret regime [Re: Lana] #1035057
05/26/22 07:00 AM
05/26/22 07:00 AM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 324
C
Capri Offline
Capo
Capri  Offline
C
Capo
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 324
careless writing to make Tom look smart finding out the secret regime

Re: lampone's secret regime [Re: Louren_Lampone] #1035082
05/26/22 08:51 PM
05/26/22 08:51 PM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 557
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Evita Offline
Underboss
Evita  Offline
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Underboss
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 557
Wouldn't Vito's undertaking that he will not be the one to break the peace pact, binding on all the Corleone family

Re: lampone's secret regime [Re: Evita] #1035089
05/26/22 11:17 PM
05/26/22 11:17 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,508
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,508
AZ
No. Michael wasn't at the Commission meeting, when Vito swore that ..."I will not be the first to break the peace we have made here today." Vito died without breaking the peace. Afterward, Michael figured, correctly, that Barzini was going to break the peace by killing him.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: lampone's secret regime [Re: Turnbull] #1035091
05/27/22 12:22 AM
05/27/22 12:22 AM
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 757
Australia
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Lana Offline
The Hunted One
Lana  Offline
The Hunted One
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Underboss
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 757
Australia
This maybe of interest
Breaking the peace?

Re: lampone's secret regime [Re: Louren_Lampone] #1035097
05/27/22 05:55 AM
05/27/22 05:55 AM
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 88
Adelaide, Australia
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lucab19 Offline
Button
lucab19  Offline
L
Button
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 88
Adelaide, Australia
Barzini presented himself as the mediator, but the peace was actually between the Corleone and Tattaglia families.


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