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Cleveland Mafia #556369
10/01/09 05:16 AM
10/01/09 05:16 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,849
Netherlands
M.M. Floors Offline OP
Underboss
M.M. Floors  Offline OP
Underboss
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,849
Netherlands
I'm reading 'Rise and fall of the Cleveland Mafia' now (R. Porello). There are some things I don't (maybe I do, but I verify it in this question) understand about the Corn Sugar:

1) Corn Sugar itself is completely legal and just a ingredient for the booze?
2) Moonshiners used honey for their booze? Honey itself is legal?
3) You can't get (destilate) alcohol from Corn Sugar and honey alone?
4) And now the main question. There is a part in the text I don't understand. I simply can't understand what is said:

"Generally grains were used as the primary ingredient in the raw mash (?) mixture. But the starch (?) in the grain had to be converted to sugar before being utilized by yeast (?) to create ethyl alcohol. The addition of sugar, first as an additive, then as a primary ingredient cut the processing time significantly. All types of sugar were used."

As I read it the Cleveland Mafia is doing nothing illegal here are they?

Thanks in advance.


Last edited by M.M. Floors; 10/01/09 05:18 AM.
Re: Cleveland Mafia [Re: M.M. Floors] #556401
10/01/09 01:11 PM
10/01/09 01:11 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,518
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,518
AZ
Floors, almost any organic substance can be fermented into alcohol. Fruit, such as grapes, can ferment naturally because some yeast is present on the skins. Other substances, such as grain, potatoes, honey, etc., can produce alcohol if they're mashed and mixed with water and cooked (a "mash"). Yeast is added, and the starch turns into sugar, which becomes alcohol. The mash is then heated to just under 100 degrees C. Since alcohol has a lower boiling point than water, the alcohol vapors in the mash will rise into a series of pipes and coils, which are cooled by water applied to the outside. The cooling converts the alcohol vapors into liquid that eventually becomes whiskey.

There's nothing illegal about producing alcohol or whiskey--as long as the producer pays taxes on the product. And the taxes are pretty steep. There's a big market in America for "moonshine"--whiskey and even pure drinking alcohol that's produced in distilleries that are hidden or are masquerading as some other kind of factory, and that don't pay taxes. Even after the repeal of Prohibition in America (1933), plenty of Mobs were--and still are--producing untaxed alcohol. Meyer Lansky even started a business called Molaska, which produced powdered molasses as a cheap substitute for sugare used in distilling alcohol. While he wasn't making whiskey per se, he was selling it to illegal whiskey-makers. The government closed him down.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Cleveland Mafia [Re: Turnbull] #556402
10/01/09 01:20 PM
10/01/09 01:20 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
pizzaboy Offline
The Fuckin Doctor
pizzaboy  Offline
The Fuckin Doctor

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
Originally Posted By: Turnbull

Meyer Lansky even started a business called Molaska, which produced powdered molasses as a cheap substitute for sugare used in distilling alcohol.


"The trucks . . . owned by your father."

Great chemistry lesson, TB!!


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: Cleveland Mafia [Re: pizzaboy] #556435
10/02/09 05:24 AM
10/02/09 05:24 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,849
Netherlands
M.M. Floors Offline OP
Underboss
M.M. Floors  Offline OP
Underboss
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,849
Netherlands
Thanks for the explanation TB! As usual very nice and clear.

But I always tought that Prohibition meant that alcoholics were illegal. But as I read your post it is something different: producing untaxed alcohol is illegal. Correct?

Re: Cleveland Mafia [Re: M.M. Floors] #556451
10/02/09 03:18 PM
10/02/09 03:18 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,518
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,518
AZ
You're welcome! smile

Not correct. During Prohibition (1920-33), it was illegal to "manufacture, transport or sell" alcoholic beverages. It was not illegal for you, as an individual, to drink alcoholic beverages, but of course, anyone who sold you the drinks was breaking the law. So, there was no legal way for you to buy beer, wine and whiskey, although in practice, the law was widely ignored and only sporadically enforced.

Before Prohibition, and after Prohibition (including now) it was and is illegal in America to manufacture and sell untaxed alcoholic beverages.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Cleveland Mafia [Re: Turnbull] #556453
10/02/09 03:25 PM
10/02/09 03:25 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,849
Netherlands
M.M. Floors Offline OP
Underboss
M.M. Floors  Offline OP
Underboss
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,849
Netherlands
Okay, clear now. Thanks

Re: Cleveland Mafia [Re: Turnbull] #556454
10/02/09 03:30 PM
10/02/09 03:30 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 22,902
New York
SC Offline
Consigliere
SC  Offline
Consigliere

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 22,902
New York
Originally Posted By: Turnbull
Before Prohibition, and after Prohibition (including now) it was and is illegal in America to manufacture and sell untaxed alcoholic beverages.


The government stepped back into getting tons of revenue from the sale of booze. Much like the mobsters did during Prohibition.


.
Re: Cleveland Mafia [Re: Turnbull] #556455
10/02/09 03:33 PM
10/02/09 03:33 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
pizzaboy Offline
The Fuckin Doctor
pizzaboy  Offline
The Fuckin Doctor

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
Originally Posted By: Turnbull
It was not illegal for you, as an individual, to drink alcoholic beverages, but of course, anyone who sold you the drinks was breaking the law.


Much like the gambling laws of today. In almost all cases, making a bet is not illegal, taking one is.


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: Cleveland Mafia [Re: pizzaboy] #556467
10/02/09 08:21 PM
10/02/09 08:21 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,518
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,518
AZ
Yes. Theoretically, a ball-breaking prosecutor could charge you with "aiding and abetting," but they never do. It's like busting the hookers and letting the johns go.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Cleveland Mafia [Re: Turnbull] #556491
10/03/09 10:55 AM
10/03/09 10:55 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
pizzaboy Offline
The Fuckin Doctor
pizzaboy  Offline
The Fuckin Doctor

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
Originally Posted By: Turnbull
It's like busting the hookers and letting the johns go.


Leave my personal life out of this, TB tongue lol.


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: Cleveland Mafia [Re: pizzaboy] #556496
10/03/09 02:01 PM
10/03/09 02:01 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 22,902
New York
SC Offline
Consigliere
SC  Offline
Consigliere

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 22,902
New York
Stay away from the streetwalkers on Emmons Avenue!


.
Re: Cleveland Mafia [Re: SC] #556498
10/03/09 02:09 PM
10/03/09 02:09 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
pizzaboy Offline
The Fuckin Doctor
pizzaboy  Offline
The Fuckin Doctor

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
Originally Posted By: SC
Stay away from the streetwalkers on Emmons Avenue!


Nah, the Russian call girls might live there, but they all work out of the Upper East Side tongue lol.


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: Cleveland Mafia [Re: pizzaboy] #558725
10/26/09 09:34 PM
10/26/09 09:34 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 372
CA
D
DiMaggio68 Offline
Capo
DiMaggio68  Offline
D
Capo
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 372
CA
Anybody have a good list on current Cleveland family members?

Re: Cleveland Mafia [Re: DiMaggio68] #558731
10/27/09 12:47 AM
10/27/09 12:47 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
I
IvyLeague Offline
IvyLeague  Offline
I

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
Originally Posted By: DiMaggio68
Anybody have a good list on current Cleveland family members?


1. Ralph "Bosie" Bucci/59
2. William "Billy" DeNova/68
3. William "Billy D" Dileno/72
4. Joseph Gallo/71
5. Joseph "Joe Loose" Iacobacci/59
6. John Iorillo/64
7. Ronald Lucarelli Jr/51
8. Nicholas "Nick" Nardi/82
9. John Oliverio/56
10. Russell Papalardo/67
11. Peter "Petey Boy" Sanzo/74
12. Anthony Velotta/67


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