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Michael and Connie #548054
07/08/09 09:39 AM
07/08/09 09:39 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline OP
Consigliere to the Stars
dontomasso  Offline OP
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Joined: Feb 2005
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With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
I have posted elsewhere my opinion that Connie is one of the great characters of the trilogy because she transforms from a rather innocent "spoiled guinea brat" to a slutty embarassment to the family, to Michael's caretaker, and finally as kingmaker to Michael's succesor, who in the process of promoting Vincent, makes her bones by killing Altobello.
The relationship between Connie and Michael is unlike any other relationship Michael has with anyone else. Perhaps because she is his older sister she is better able to identify and resist Michael's manipulations, and because of his guilt over killing her husband and later on their brother he doesn't try too hard to manipulate her. In fact no one gets away with more vis-a-vis Michael than Connie. She embarasses him with Merle and her other escapades, while he is bailing out her son from apetty theft. When she re-gains her senses she returns to Michael, tells him he needs her, and right away she is back in the family acting as Michael's caretaker, and eventually confidante. The first thing she does once she is ensconced in the Tahoe home is sneak Kay in to see the kids, completely against Michael's orders. When Michael catches Kay in the house his wrath is directed to Kay, not Connie, and we do not see where Connie pays the price. Eventually, as we know, Michael sends the kids who he swore Kay would never "take" back East to her ostensibly for their educational benefits.
Connie had to have had a role in this decision. Then in III after she "gives the order" to hit Zasa, Michael rebukes her, but does nothing to diminish her influence. Instead, her influence over him increases, and she becomes a power center in the family. Contemplating Michael's possible assassination she asks Vincent in the pool room scene if he has arranged everything if the worst happens, and she tells him he is the heir apparent because he is the only one who has Vito's strength. In fact it utrns out IMHO she also had Vito's strength and Michael recognized that in her, and used it for the good of the family despite the fact that she never really marched in lock step with him. It is a relationship unlike any other Michael has.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: Michael and Connie [Re: dontomasso] #548055
07/08/09 09:44 AM
07/08/09 09:44 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
pizzaboy Offline
The Fuckin Doctor
pizzaboy  Offline
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Throggs Neck
Originally Posted By: dontomasso
Perhaps because she is his older sister she is better able to identify and resist Michael's manipulations . . .


Great idea for a thread, DT. But since when is Connie older than Michael?


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: Michael and Connie [Re: pizzaboy] #548072
07/08/09 11:50 AM
07/08/09 11:50 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline OP
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dontomasso  Offline OP
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With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
Originally Posted By: dontomasso
Perhaps because she is his older sister she is better able to identify and resist Michael's manipulations . . .


Great idea for a thread, DT. But since when is Connie older than Michael?


Thought she was.... if not, then insert "she was his little sister" and go on from there.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: Michael and Connie [Re: dontomasso] #548077
07/08/09 12:34 PM
07/08/09 12:34 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,508
AZ
Turnbull Offline
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I agree that Connie's transformation is one of the strengths of the Trilogy. The fact that Talia Shire is FFC's sister may have had something to do with her durability in the Trilogy, and all the stuff she got away with. wink

BTW: I doubt that Connie sneaked Kay in to see the kids. At that point in her resurrection in the family, she wouldn't risk offending Michael. It looked to me as if Kay had legal visitation rights, that Michael chose to be absent during her visitation time, and Connie was hustling Kay out because the time had elapsed and she'd come face to face with Michael.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Michael and Connie [Re: Turnbull] #548086
07/08/09 01:59 PM
07/08/09 01:59 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline OP
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dontomasso  Offline OP
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With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
Originally Posted By: Turnbull
BTW: I doubt that Connie sneaked Kay in to see the kids. At that point in her resurrection in the family, she wouldn't risk offending Michael. It looked to me as if Kay had legal visitation rights, that Michael chose to be absent during her visitation time, and Connie was hustling Kay out because the time had elapsed and she'd come face to face with Michael.


I dunno TB when they got word Michael was coming she was begging Kay to leave as Kay was trying to get a hug from Anthony.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: Michael and Connie [Re: dontomasso] #548098
07/08/09 02:38 PM
07/08/09 02:38 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,019
Texas
O
olivant Offline
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O

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Texas
DT, I agree with TB. Connie was tring to avoid a bad scene which did occur.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Michael and Connie [Re: Turnbull] #548384
07/10/09 01:57 PM
07/10/09 01:57 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
AppleOnYa Offline
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New Jersey
Originally Posted By: Turnbull
...I doubt that Connie sneaked Kay in to see the kids. At that point in her resurrection in the family, she wouldn't risk offending Michael. It looked to me as if Kay had legal visitation rights, that Michael chose to be absent during her visitation time, and Connie was hustling Kay out because the time had elapsed and she'd come face to face with Michael.


Agreed. While Michael at the time wanted nothing more to do with Kay there was NEVER the indication of him breaking her off from the children. If that were the case, he had ample power to make sure nobody, even Connie, could get her even close to the house.

It was a scheduled visit, her time was up, and Michael was arriving home.

Apple


A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.

- THOMAS JEFFERSON

Re: Michael and Connie [Re: AppleOnYa] #548540
07/12/09 10:33 AM
07/12/09 10:33 AM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 599
Toronto, Ontario
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dontommasino Offline
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Toronto, Ontario
I am not necessarily sure I believe this myself, but I will throw it out there for the sake of discussion. Is Michael's attitude towards Connie influenced by the fact of what happened with Carlo and Michael knows that Connie knows who ordered it. In conclusion, Michael cannot risk offending Connie as much as vice versa and that is why she got away with so much.

Re: Michael and Connie [Re: dontommasino] #548542
07/12/09 10:52 AM
07/12/09 10:52 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
AppleOnYa Offline
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New Jersey
Originally Posted By: dontommasino
...Is Michael's attitude towards Connie influenced by the fact of what happened with Carlo and Michael knows that Connie knows who ordered it.


No.

Originally Posted By: dontommasino
... Michael cannot risk offending Connie as much as vice versa and that is why she got away with so much.


Michael had already 'offended' Connie by having her husband murdered. It was Connie who came crawling back to Michael after their mother's death.

Connie got away with 'so much' because unlike other siblings, she remained loyal to the Family and never betrayed her brother.

Good discussion.


A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.

- THOMAS JEFFERSON

Re: Michael and Connie [Re: dontommasino] #548543
07/12/09 11:06 AM
07/12/09 11:06 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,019
Texas
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olivant Offline
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O

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Texas
Besides the fratricide, I don't think Mike had any regrets about killing people. He trusted Connie who was the only one left of the same blood.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Michael and Connie [Re: olivant] #548715
07/13/09 05:49 PM
07/13/09 05:49 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 599
Toronto, Ontario
D
dontommasino Offline
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Also, it would not be in Michael's character to allow Connie to have such a hold on him.

Re: Michael and Connie [Re: dontommasino] #548740
07/13/09 09:27 PM
07/13/09 09:27 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,508
AZ
Turnbull Offline
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AZ
Nice parallel: Connie asked Michael for a favor at the end of GF by standing godfather to her son. He complied--and whacked her husband. Then, after she finally got over it, she fell on her knees in II and begged Michael to forgive Fredo. He complied (sort of)--and whacked Fredo. The novel implies a an interesting Michael-type "moral" rationale and connection to the two events (even though II wasn't included in the novel): Michael wasn't being cruel to Connie because it was her idea for him to stand godfather to her son--not his. Presumably the same applied to her plea to "forgive" Fredo

Connie's reaction to Fredo's murder might have made an interesting addition to the end of II, especially since III wasn't envisioned at that time. But her conversion in III to Michael's loyal retainer, and her transformation to assertive family member, was credible. So was Michael's acceptance of her. I think Connie must have realized that Fredo really was a traitor and a danger to Michael--and in any event, Michael was her meal ticket for the rest of her life at that point. Michael probably sensed that Connie was accepting his rationale for killing Fredo, which probably helped him deal with his own conscience.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Michael and Connie [Re: Turnbull] #548789
07/14/09 08:50 AM
07/14/09 08:50 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline OP
Consigliere to the Stars
dontomasso  Offline OP
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Joined: Feb 2005
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With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
Originally Posted By: Turnbull
I think Connie must have realized that Fredo really was a traitor and a danger to Michael--and in any event, Michael was her meal ticket for the rest of her life at that point. Michael probably sensed that Connie was accepting his rationale for killing Fredo, which probably helped him deal with his own conscience.


Two points...

1. By III Connie saw that Michael was slowing down, and she showed her strength (if not good judgment) by ordering the killing of Joey Zasa.

2. We get a glimplse into Connie's total loyalty to Michael when she expresses surprise that he went to confession. She is really shocked that Michael would tell his secrets to a "stranger." When Michael tells her Lamberto was a "real priest" the next thing out of Connie's mouth was something about "poor Fredo" drowning. In other words in one sentence she tows the "party line" about the cause of Fredo's death and acknowledges that Michael's guilt can be assuaged by his having confessed his sins.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: Michael and Connie [Re: dontomasso] #570152
03/20/10 12:48 PM
03/20/10 12:48 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3
T
theoffer Offline
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Associate
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Posts: 3
Connie was always one of my favorite characters...she served a very interesting mean in the film. Her loyalty, strength, and even smarts showed very well throughout the saga. She showed michael how loyal she was by always loving him despite everything...and michael showed her qualities that only she had seen from her father bc he never went over the edge when she tried to "do things to herself to hurt him." Sonny would have flipped the bar over with her escapades had he still been alive...Michael, he was too smart to fall for such immaturity and that's what ends up making her ask for forgiveness. They were both unbreakable.

Re: Michael and Connie [Re: theoffer] #570153
03/20/10 12:58 PM
03/20/10 12:58 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,019
Texas
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olivant Offline
olivant  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,019
Texas
When you think of it, what Mafiosi don't have sisters and how many of those sisters have eschewed any relationship with their brother let alone not accepted money and services from them. I venture to say that very few (perhaps none) have. Although sibling faithfuness may ebb and flow, overall it remains in tact for most of. So, Connie's ultimate faithfulness to Michael is not so surprising.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."

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