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Second Thoughts For Tom? #542148
05/25/09 07:42 PM
05/25/09 07:42 PM
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Don Cardi Offline OP
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When the Corleones are sitting around waiting for Sonny's contact to let them know where the meet with the Turk is going to take place, we see Tom begin to unravel a bit as the time of the pickup gets closer and closer.

It's almost as if Tom is starting to panic.

Is Tom sincerely worried about Michael's safety?

Is he more worried that the plan will fail and that he'll have to explain himself to the Don if anything happens to Michael?

Or did he have doubts about Michael's plan all along and began to show his doubts at this point because everything was about to go down?



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Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.




Re: Second Thoughts For Tom? [Re: Don Cardi] #542165
05/25/09 09:59 PM
05/25/09 09:59 PM
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olivant Offline
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I don't think so. I just think Tom gets upset with Sonny's reasoning and beliigierence sometimes. Sonny wants to blast whoever is in Sollozzo'z car and Tom tells him rather aggressively that Sollozzo might not even be in it.


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Re: Second Thoughts For Tom? [Re: olivant] #542180
05/26/09 12:24 AM
05/26/09 12:24 AM
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Alive4Kill Offline
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I think he is concerned about Micheal's safety.Because no one can know what will happen in that meeting.Also, deciding on a meeting and arranging the place give an advantage to Turk.However,Micheal who is so clever and can think properly without panic, overcomes Turk and his advantage which makes Michael a great Don after his father.

Re: Second Thoughts For Tom? [Re: Alive4Kill] #542213
05/26/09 05:33 AM
05/26/09 05:33 AM
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What I like in this scene it's the nervous tension inside everybody, especially Mike, Tom and Sonny. When I watch the film, I feel this tension too. It's one of those moments when our minds are racing: Fear of death (own death or a person you love), doubts about the decisions, getting distracted by second thoughts, physical needs and pain (Michael, for example wasn't able to eat anything), questioning the judgment of others. All this in the speed of light.
Tessio looks tensed too when he explains the box-and-chain-thing. Clemenza looks like a rock in the scene, shoveling Chinese food in his mouth with his dirty hands. He's trying to calm the rest of the group down. ("The gun'll be there." "He's playing pinochle with my men.") But when they all made up their minds, he can't hold the tension either, jumping up: "Let's move."
So my point is: Tom did have second thoughts, but also he was really worried about Michael. And that's how everybody else felt.

Re: Second Thoughts For Tom? [Re: Danito] #542225
05/26/09 08:55 AM
05/26/09 08:55 AM
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The Last Woltz Offline
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The interesting thing to me in that scene is the role reversal of Sonny and Tom - Tom is very emotional and Sonny is, by his standards, calm.

Sonny gets the phone call, reports the info, and Tom screams "is it reliable." (As if there was any alternative info out there.) Sonny calmly explains how he knows and why it must be accurate.


"A man in my position cannot afford to be made to look ridiculous!"
Re: Second Thoughts For Tom? [Re: Don Cardi] #542230
05/26/09 09:42 AM
05/26/09 09:42 AM
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fathersson Offline
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He is worried about Michael's safety. With the Don out of action, Tom doesn't want anything to happen to the chosen one. After all, he and the Don had many talks on what the Don wanted for Michael and this was not one of them.

Remember, this is one time the Corleones were not running the show. The Turk was in control of what was to happen, where and when. It put them in a position that they really didn't like to be in. Any strong arm move and Michael would surely be the one to take the first hit. Fast and lose was not the way Vito played things. They were always thought out and well planned.
Tom knew this and he didn't like the feel of how things were going.

Last edited by fathersson; 05/26/09 11:11 AM.

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Re: Second Thoughts For Tom? [Re: Don Cardi] #542268
05/26/09 12:03 PM
05/26/09 12:03 PM
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AZ
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Good question, DC, and I agree with all the views expressed. The combination of all those factors is what makes the scene so memorable.
Another thing: While Sonny (earlier) had said that the Don "will have my head" if Michael got directly involved, Tom may have felt that the Don would hold him, not Sonny, personally responsible if anything bad happened to Michael. As we saw in the flashback scene at the end of II, Tom told Michael "your father and I have talked, many times, about your future." So Tom may have been thinking that the Don might have expected hothead Sonny to lose his cool and get Michael involved. But not Tom... And, as we saw later, when Vito comes home from the hospital and asks about Michael, it's Tom who tells him that Michael shot Mac and Sol. Vito then musters as much anger as he can at that point and waves Tom away.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Second Thoughts For Tom? [Re: Turnbull] #542534
05/28/09 03:01 PM
05/28/09 03:01 PM
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Great opinions all around. I agree that Tom was especially nervous about this because everything had to work perfectly if Michael was to pull it off, and as the hour grew late no one
knew where the meeting would be. At some point it would have been too late for Clemenza to plant the weapon in time.

This brings up a subordinate issue here...namely that Clemenza had to go to the restaurant, and presumably order a meal, and then use the bathroom to plant the weapon. I don't see him strolling in and asking to use the facilities without being a paying customer. Assuming that was the case they were already operating on a short timeline, and it is surprising to me that
Sol would not have had someone staked out there in advance. Had he done so that person would have recognized Clemenza and things would have turned out much differently.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: Second Thoughts For Tom? [Re: dontomasso] #542551
05/28/09 06:57 PM
05/28/09 06:57 PM
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AppleOnYa Offline
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He is worried about Michael and also probably a bit concerned about how the Don will take this (whether it's a success or failure) once he is well enough to be told. Assume he's had a few days to think about the whole plan. While he surely agrees with Michael that the Turk must die or another attempt will be made on Vito's life...he also knows another war is about to begin. I think he has a big knot in the pit of his stomach about the whole thing.

Yes, Tom is freaking out, and for quite a number of reason.

Apple


A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.

- THOMAS JEFFERSON

Re: Second Thoughts For Tom? [Re: AppleOnYa] #542554
05/28/09 07:11 PM
05/28/09 07:11 PM
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Don Cardi Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: dontomasso


This brings up a subordinate issue here...namely that Clemenza had to go to the restaurant, and presumably order a meal, and then use the bathroom to plant the weapon..... it is surprising to me that Sol would not have had someone staked out there in advance. Had he done so that person would have recognized Clemenza and things would have turned out much differently.



What makes you think that Clemenza was the one who planted the gun? There was still plenty of time for Clemenza to have one of his people shoot over from the Corleone compound into the City to plant that gun.


Originally Posted By: AppleOnYa
He is worried about Michael and also probably a bit concerned about how the Don will take this (whether it's a success or failure) once he is well enough to be told. Assume he's had a few days to think about the whole plan. While he surely agrees with Michael that the Turk must die or another attempt will be made on Vito's life...he also knows another war is about to begin. I think he has a big knot in the pit of his stomach about the whole thing.

Yes, Tom is freaking out, and for quite a number of reason.

Apple


Excellent summation Apple. I totally agree with all that you've said.



Don Cardi cool

Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.




Re: Second Thoughts For Tom? [Re: Don Cardi] #542592
05/29/09 09:05 AM
05/29/09 09:05 AM
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The Last Woltz Offline
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Originally Posted By: Don Cardi
Originally Posted By: dontomasso


This brings up a subordinate issue here...namely that Clemenza had to go to the restaurant, and presumably order a meal, and then use the bathroom to plant the weapon..... it is surprising to me that Sol would not have had someone staked out there in advance. Had he done so that person would have recognized Clemenza and things would have turned out much differently.



What makes you think that Clemenza was the one who planted the gun? There was still plenty of time for Clemenza to have one of his people shoot over from the Corleone compound into the City to plant that gun.



Agreed.

The way Sonny insists that "somebody good" plant the gun makes clear that he does not expect Clemenza to do it himself.


"A man in my position cannot afford to be made to look ridiculous!"
Re: Second Thoughts For Tom? [Re: Don Cardi] #542594
05/29/09 09:38 AM
05/29/09 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted By: Don Cardi
What makes you think that Clemenza was the one who planted the gun? There was still plenty of time for Clemenza to have one of his people shoot over from the Corleone compound into the City to plant that gun.



Cause Michael said "If Clemenza can figure a way" to plant the gun. So I assumed this would not be something Clemenza would delegate, especially so close to the Paulie incident.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: Second Thoughts For Tom? [Re: dontomasso] #542657
05/29/09 05:53 PM
05/29/09 05:53 PM
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Don Cardi Offline OP
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Ok, point taken. But I just don't think that he would risk blowing the plan by going there himself, and as you correctly pointed out, taking the chance of being recognized.

It's funny how we all interpret things differently when watching the same scenes.

I always assumed that Clemenza had someone plant the gun because of Sonny saying "Hey, listen, I want somebody good -- and I mean very good -- to plant that gun. I don't want my brother coming out of that toilet with just his dick in his hands, alright?" and Clemenza replying "The gun'll be there."




Don Cardi cool

Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.





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