I've noticed something, only Sonny's parents call him by his full name and his friends and brothers call him Sonny...but Sonny introduces HIMSELF as Santino...three times, to Barzini, to Sollozzo, and down the phone to Tessio...

Does he prefer Sonny or Santino.

Also...at what point do we think Sonny went 'off' of Carlo...he seems to really hate him at the dinner scene...did he literally just decide to dislike him at that point...or do people think it was a mistake to have Sonny introduce Carlo to Connie...

He probably prefrred Santino to Sonny....it sounds more respectful. As for Carlo we see Sonny getting irritated at him when he see Carlo verbally abusing Connie before and during dinner the day Vito got back from the hospital....mama
had to tell him "Don't interfere." I am sure he felt some responsibility for having introduced them and this heightened his anger at Carlo.

So, simply from the moment he said 'Shut up when Sonny's speaking', Sonny decided to hate him. From watching part 1, it does not look like Sonny introduced Carlo to Connie

Hollywood, Sonny introduces Carlo to Connie in the flashback scene in GFII. (The same scene you quote in your sig.)

I doubt that Sonny "decided" to hate Carlo at any one moment. It probably grew gradually, especially once he realized Carlo was beating Connie.

I know when that scene occured and I was asking whether FFC made a mistake to include it when if you watch part 1, it doesn't look as if Sonny has any time for Carlo at all. He clearly disliked him before he knew about the beatings.

Finocchio, watch Part II and you'll see the introduction.

Vito didn't trust Carlo from the get go, nor did he particularly like him. In the novel he was just glad to marry off his rather homely daughter. He makes this clear to Tom when he tells him to "NEVER" allow him to do anything important in the family business other than to give him a living. Tom obviously conveyed this to Sonny, and Carlo never played an active role in the buiness. Note how they send him out of the room when Vito return from the hospital.

I have also always thought that Michael may have overplayed his hand when he announced that Carlo would become his right hand man in Vegas. This seemingly boneheaded Tessio to betray him.

When Hagen comes back from Hollywood, we see in a deleted scene how Sonny tries to interfere in a Carlo/Connie fight. This time Vito tells him not to do so.

I KNOW the scene...I've SEEN the scene.

Sonny introduces Carlo as his friend. From watching Part I, they look anything but friends.

I have seen the deleted scene where Sonny witnesses the arguments and that also makes me think that Sonny and Carlo just aren't 'friends'

Although the novel and the movie are a bit different, it does go into detail about how Carlo was introduced to Connie by Sonny. It also tells of how Carlo deliberately charmed all of the Corleones in order to marry Connie. When Vito gives him just an okay job, he's pissed. He believed that by marrying Connie, he would be given the keys to the kingdom. However, he was an ass. He beat her on their honeymoon, took their wedding gift money, and blew a good deal of it at the track.

Yeah and bought that spiffy jumpsuit.

Finochio, the whole point of the flashback is to contrast the relationships among many of the films' protagonists with what happened to and between those protagonists in the films.

I know that.

And thats fine

EXCEPT the Carlo introduction...which doesn't fit. Sonny SCORNS Carlo

FFC didn't make a mistake. I'm sure that he was fully aware, from the novel, that Sonny introduced Carlo to Connie. There's only so much that can be written from a novel into a film.

Explaining what looks to be a DEEP hatred of Carlo by Sonny is important in light of later events surely?

Madonne! Don't you read our posts? Several Board members have explained to you (as I just did above) that the flashback scene was intended to represent the way things used to be. That scene takes place in 1941 before Connie and Carlo were married, before they were engaged, before they had even dated. There was no reason then for Sonny to hate Carlo or to have any other feeling about him other than what he portrayed in that scene. You might also have noticed that everyone at the table looks younger and that three of them are dead. That scene is a grand cinematic gesture on FFC's part and one of the best parts of the Trilogy.

I DO read them and am still unsatisfied. I love the flashback scene, you don't know how much I love it, I'm nearly moved to tears, its the only time you see all four brothers together aside from the wedding photograph. BUT Sonny's attitude towards Carlo in part I is hateful. He doesn't warn Carlo off telling Connie to shut up in a calm way, he screams at him over the dinner table in front of everyone, he has no regard for him at all and its hard to beleive they were ever friends...that's all I am saying. Something ELSE must have happened in the intervening years to make Sonny hate Carlo long before the wedding.

Then read again the post of Sicilian Babe. That explains it. Carlo changed after the marriage. And the worst thing: He started fighting Connie from day one of their marriage.

It doesn't really explain it. Not for me. There is no answer.

Madonne HF....Sonny was still little more than a street hood in 1941 four years went be between then and the wedding. Then, after the marriage Sonny learns Carlo is mistreting his sister. In case you didn't notice, Sonny had a very short fuse and he was capable of turning on people at a moment's notice. Look how he treats Tom saying "Pop had Genco, look what I've got...." and a second later apologizing to him. You are making a mountain out of a molehill.

Tom is his brother. Carlo isn't. My only conclusion is that Sonny didnt really like Carlo when he introduced him, just wanted to get his sister a boyfriend.

Ok, that's it! You nailed it! You figured it out. How stupid could we all be not to have perceived what you perceived?

I'm wondering that myself...it is THAT obvious.

Sonny wasn't operating a professional dating service. I doubt he would hook up his sister with, and bring into the bosom of his family, someone he didn't like.

Hollywood, after reading your replies here, and some over in a couple of other topics, its begining to look to me as though you are either just looking to be difficult for the hell of it or that you really don't bother reading the full explainations and interpretations that others post.


Yes, we see that Sonny hates Carlo in GFI. Maybe, just maybe, FFC decided to add into the flashback scene in GFII the fact ( as told in the novel ) that ironically it was Sonny who introduced his sister to the man who set him up to be killed.

No tricks here, no miscues, no mistakes. Thats how it was told by Puzo, and FFC probably could not add that fact into GFI because of time and movie length limitations. So when GFII was made, he found his way to add it in.

Nothing more, nothing less. End of story.

Cardi - I'm disappointed that you'd accuse me of such a thing, just because I happen to disagree with the 'made' members of the forum. I am not scared to bring up as issue that I find bizarre, you can't make me agree with you.

The LEVEL of Santino's hate for Carlo seems to have overshadowed the fact that they were ever friends. If it was a friend, you would calmly tell Carlo not to tell your sister to shut up...to someone you clearly hate..you scream at him.

That is the point...none of you are understanding me, and are just pointing me in the direction of the flashback scene. Which was true to the novel, but after GF1 had been filmed and Sonny had been shown to thoroughly detest Carlo before he'd learnt of the beatings.

That is all I am saying. I've read the responses and I've disagreed with them...not for the sake of it either. Turnbull made a post about Frank the other day and I complimented him heavily on his work!

Carlo had proven to be an embarrassment to Sonny before Sonny learned of his sister's beatings. Carlo had run the book he was given into the ground. Sonny would have taken that as insult because he was responsible for Carlo being in the Family.

Then that needed to be highlighted in the movie. We saw very little of Carlo's exploits as a bookie

There are things that are unable to be squeezed into a movie. It was obvious that Sonny had little regard for Carlo, and that was shown in the proper context.

Please, feel free to disagree and discuss various points of the film. However, when you're given a logical and detailed explanation, at least have the courtesy to act like you've read it.

How do I go about that then babe? By agreeing with it?

I don't agree. And I've said why. Of course I've read the posts, I can't respond without reading them.

No, you don't have to agree. You can continue to disagree all you want. That's certainly your right. Or rather, you're wrong! Ha Ha! See what I did there? I made a little funny about you disagreeing in the face of all logic.