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senate meeting in g2 #532170
02/20/09 01:10 AM
02/20/09 01:10 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 171
pgh., pa
Guiseppe Petri Offline OP
. 45 caliber
Guiseppe Petri  Offline OP
. 45 caliber
Made Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 171
pgh., pa
i dont know how many times i've seen all 3 movies, tonight while watching g 2, i noticed something that i dont know how i could have missed ( sorry about sentence structure ). when mike walks into the senate meeting with pentangeli's brother, rocoo walks into room just before mike. wouldn't this have been noticed - rocco's pic and name was on the corleone family tree as being in the family ? why would mike have rocco accompany him if he was trying to pass himself as legit?? in the scene where mike is being questioned, they cut to a long shot of the room and you can see a large display of the family tree that shows pictures of mike and all of his underlings. how is it possible that of all the feds and panel members, nobody see's rooco???????????


Guiseppe Petri
Re: senate meeting in g2 [Re: Guiseppe Petri] #532175
02/20/09 07:12 AM
02/20/09 07:12 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,718
Berlin, Germany
Danito Offline
Underboss
Danito  Offline
Underboss
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Posts: 1,718
Berlin, Germany
The "family tree" was an FBI theory based on several assumptions and on the testimony of Pentangeli and Cicci.
They didn't have any evidence that Rocco was involved in crimes.

Re: senate meeting in g2 [Re: Danito] #532197
02/20/09 01:45 PM
02/20/09 01:45 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,514
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,514
AZ
Not only that, Tom's picture was on the FBI chart, identified as consigliere--and he was representing Michael at the hearing.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: senate meeting in g2 [Re: Turnbull] #532201
02/20/09 03:22 PM
02/20/09 03:22 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,020
Texas
O
olivant Offline
olivant  Offline
O

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,020
Texas
Another thing. I watched GFII last night and the Senate scene where Cicci says "I push a button on a guy" continues to strike me as damn silly. I asked my dad about that scene and he said that "button" is probably the Americanization of battere which means simply to hit. Certainly, FFC had sources that would have explained that to him. Even if not, pushing buttons was just not part of the American lexicon in the late 40s and early 50s, right? I just don't find it credible.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: senate meeting in g2 [Re: olivant] #532202
02/20/09 03:31 PM
02/20/09 03:31 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
pizzaboy Offline
The Fuckin Doctor
pizzaboy  Offline
The Fuckin Doctor

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
Battere?

Hmm, I never thought of that. Your Pop sounds pretty insightful, Olivant.

It does sound ridiculous when Cicci mentions it. I always thought it was poor writing; that FFC was trying to get a verb out of the term "Button Man."


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: senate meeting in g2 [Re: pizzaboy] #532232
02/20/09 07:50 PM
02/20/09 07:50 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,718
Berlin, Germany
Danito Offline
Underboss
Danito  Offline
Underboss
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,718
Berlin, Germany
Originally Posted By: pizzaboy

It does sound ridiculous when Cicci mentions it. I always thought it was poor writing; that FFC was trying to get a verb out of the term "Button Man."

Maybe it was a Cicciism or a term used among the Corleone button men. One more thing: Cicci doesn't seem to be the brightest guy. When Geary says: "Could you amplify your answer?" he doesn't know what he's supposed to do.

Re: senate meeting in g2 [Re: Danito] #532253
02/20/09 10:12 PM
02/20/09 10:12 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,020
Texas
O
olivant Offline
olivant  Offline
O

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,020
Texas
Well, given that button man is aunivesal Mafia term, it is hardly becoming to FFC to have Cicci explain that way.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: senate meeting in g2 [Re: Danito] #532254
02/20/09 10:18 PM
02/20/09 10:18 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 171
pgh., pa
Guiseppe Petri Offline OP
. 45 caliber
Guiseppe Petri  Offline OP
. 45 caliber
Made Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 171
pgh., pa
but on the family tree they have names, pictures, f.b.i. numbers and a key codes indicating what those persons' are responsible for. was the chart organized only on allegations ?? did any of the family members have clean records?? we know from past postings that at least neri was in jail for killing someone, why was there no inquiry into why he was in mike's employ??

Last edited by Guiseppe Petri; 02/20/09 10:19 PM.

Guiseppe Petri
Re: senate meeting in g2 [Re: Guiseppe Petri] #532260
02/20/09 11:38 PM
02/20/09 11:38 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,020
Texas
O
olivant Offline
olivant  Offline
O

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,020
Texas
Anytime anyone outside of the family tries to illustrate its organization there's bound to be mistakes. Only the family people really know and things can change very quickly.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: senate meeting in g2 [Re: olivant] #532278
02/21/09 10:49 AM
02/21/09 10:49 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,718
Berlin, Germany
Danito Offline
Underboss
Danito  Offline
Underboss
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,718
Berlin, Germany
Of course, everybody knew that Michael was the head of a crime organisation (well, everyone except Kay). But they couldn't prove it. That's why they needed Pentangeli's testimony. The fact that Rocco who is known as a killer appears at the hearing, might be interpreted as a provocation. As Geary put it: "Certainly we have to play little games."

Re: senate meeting in g2 [Re: Danito] #532285
02/21/09 12:13 PM
02/21/09 12:13 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline
Consigliere to the Stars
dontomasso  Offline
Consigliere to the Stars

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
Originally Posted By: Danito
Of course, everybody knew that Michael was the head of a crime organisation (well, everyone except Kay). But they couldn't prove it. That's why they needed Pentangeli's testimony. The fact that Rocco who is known as a killer appears at the hearing, might be interpreted as a provocation. As Geary put it: "Certainly we have to play little games."




I think Kay had a pretty good idea about Michael's "occupation."


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: senate meeting in g2 [Re: dontomasso] #532292
02/21/09 02:09 PM
02/21/09 02:09 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,514
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,514
AZ
The Senate hearing scene was a marvel of attention to detail and period accuracy--including the inaccuracies in the family chart:

Not only is the Senate chamber in the film a "7/8 reduction of the real thing" (per Harlan Lebo), the family chart is a perfect repo of the charts used at the famous Valachi hearings in 1963 You can see the original chartrs here (scroll to the bottom):

http://www.gangrule.com/gallery/maps.html

The FBI had steadfastly ignored the Mafia until Valachi came forward. To try to look as if they knew what they were doing, the FBI made up the charts primarily from Valachi's recollections. But Valachi wasn't very accurate--he'd been in prison for years and was a low-ranking soldier--so the charts weren't accurate, either.

The same is true for the Corleone family chart shown in the scene. For example, Fredo is listed as "Underboss," on a line above Neri and Rocco, when we all know Michael didn't trust him with anything more than running a brothel or a Mickey Mouse nightclub. I think FFC was deliberately trying to show a parallel with the real thing: the FBI was guessing, and not very accurately.

Another point: the real purpose of the Senate hearing, as manipulated by Roth and his man Questadt, was to destroy Michael's legitimate facade. To reinforce that Michael was a Mafia boss, the FBI showed the chart with Hagen, Neri and Rocco--people he was publicly associated with--having extensive FBI files and/or police records. Guilt by association. I think our lawyer paisani on this board will agree that, in real life, a chart showing Michael's lawyer, who was representing him at the hearing, as a high ranking officer of the family, would have brought a howl of protest from Hagen, who had no criminal record and was a member of the bar.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.

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