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Santiago Meza #529720
01/24/09 05:57 AM
01/24/09 05:57 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,849
Netherlands
M.M. Floors Offline OP
Underboss
M.M. Floors  Offline OP
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Joined: Apr 2002
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Today I read an article in the newspaper that Santiago Meza was arrested by the Mexican police. Together with 2 other people he was arrest nearby a touristcomplex in Ensenada. He worked for Eduardo Simental who was member of the Arellano Felix cartel. Why is he so famous? He made 300 dead bodies disapear in chemicals. Because of that his alias was 'Pozolero' what is the word for a traditional Mexican stew.

---

But 300 bodies. What a enourmous number. He probably didn't kill them, he was only responsible for the disappearing.

Re: Santiago Meza [Re: M.M. Floors] #529726
01/24/09 06:20 AM
01/24/09 06:20 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
Lilo Offline
Lilo  Offline

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
Wow. Those cartels are out of control...


"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives."
Winter is Coming

Now this is the Law of the Jungle—as old and as true as the sky; And the wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the wolf that shall break it must die.
As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk, the Law runneth forward and back; For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.
Re: Santiago Meza [Re: M.M. Floors] #529752
01/24/09 01:24 PM
01/24/09 01:24 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,518
AZ
Turnbull Offline
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Posts: 19,518
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The reason the newspapers are playing up Meza and other Mexican drug criminals is that, as Lilo said, the cartels are out of control. They are wielding power in Mexico that's almost equivalent to the power that the drug cartels had in Colombia not too long ago. It's viewed as a "phenomenon" in the rest of the world--how can this be happening in a civilized country?


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Santiago Meza [Re: Turnbull] #529780
01/24/09 05:33 PM
01/24/09 05:33 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,849
Netherlands
M.M. Floors Offline OP
Underboss
M.M. Floors  Offline OP
Underboss
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,849
Netherlands
I can understand that. But in Holland it's actually the first publish of this problem. And secondly, I don't have much knowledge about Mexican cartels. Thus I didn't know they were out of control.

Do the Mexican cartels have influence in politics then? Or is it just power in the meaning of 'do what we want, otherwise we use violence'?

Re: Santiago Meza [Re: M.M. Floors] #529806
01/24/09 09:48 PM
01/24/09 09:48 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,518
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,518
AZ
You're right, Floors--since Mexico shares a border with the US, there's far more coverage here.
In Mexico, as anywhere else, money talks. The cartels "own" police and Army officials whose job is to break them up. They also own plenty of politicians. And they are incredibly ruthless: they massacre and behead dozens of victims at a time, including law enforcement.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Santiago Meza [Re: M.M. Floors] #529807
01/24/09 09:48 PM
01/24/09 09:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
Lilo Offline
Lilo  Offline

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
Lately for a lot of different reasons both the Mexican cartels and the US based La Eme have been increasingly violent. But the violence in the US is NOTHING compared to what's going on in Mexico.

The cartels have political might and also have a dedication to extreme violence. There is some concern that some of the anti-drug or military aid that the US sends to Mexico has actually been diverted to cartel use (much like in Colombia). The cartels have increased the violence so that it's not just poor people or people doing business with them at risk; everyone's at risk. Kidnapping is huge business in Mexico now. The greater violence the cartels bring spill over into the street and increase the perception of a lawless society. I don't know if things are at a tipping point yet but when organized crime feels no compunction at eliminating political or law enforcement leaders, there's a really serious issue.

Here's a yahoo story on some of the latest twists on this phenomenon that illustrates some of what I discussed.



MEXICO CITY – President Felipe Calderon's war on drug trafficking has led to his own doorstep, with the arrest of a dozen high-ranking officials with alleged ties to Mexico's most powerful drug gang, the Sinaloa Cartel.

The U.S. praises Calderon for rooting out corruption at the top. But critics say the arrests reveal nothing more than a timeworn government tactic of protecting one cartel and cracking down on others.

Operation Clean House comes just as the U.S. is giving Mexico its first installment of $400 million in equipment and technology to fight drugs. Most will go to a beefed-up federal police agency run by the same people whose top aides have been arrested as alleged Sinaloa spies.

"If there is anything worse than a corrupt and ill-equipped cop, it is a corrupt and well-equipped cop," said criminal justice expert Jorge Chabat, who studies the drug trade.

U.S. drug enforcement agents say they have no qualms about sending support to Mexico.

"We've been working with the Mexican government for decades at the DEA," said Garrison Courtney, spokesman for the Drug Enforcement Administration. "Obviously, we ensure that the individuals we work with are vetted."

Agents who conduct raids have long suspected Mexican government ties to Sinaloa, and rival drug gangs have advertised the alleged connection in banners hung from freeways. While raids against the rival Gulf cartel have netted suspects, those against Sinaloa almost always came up empty — or worse, said Agent Oscar Granados Salero of the Federal Investigative Agency, Mexico's equivalent of the FBI.

"Whenever we were trying to serve arrest warrants, they were already waiting for us, and a lot of colleagues lost their lives that way," Salero said.

The U.S. government estimates that the cartels smuggle $15 billion to $20 billion in drug money across the border each year.

Over the last five months, officials from the Mexican Attorney General's office, the federal police and even Mexico's representatives to Interpol have been detained on suspicion of acting as spies for Sinaloa or its one-time ally, the Beltran Leyva gang. An officer who served in Calderon's presidential guard was detained in December on suspicion of spying for Beltran Leyva.

Gerardo Garay, formerly the acting federal police chief, is accused of protecting the Beltran Leyva brothers and stealing money from a mansion during an October drug raid. Former drug czar Noe Ramirez, who was supposed to serve as point man in Calderon's anti-drug fight, is accused of taking $450,000 from Sinaloa.

Most of such tips are coming from a Mexican federal agent who infiltrated the U.S. embassy for the Beltran Leyva drug cartel. No such infiltrators have been found for the Gulf cartel, which controls most drug shipments in eastern Mexico and Central America. Sinaloa controls Pacific and western routes.

The DEA's Courtney agrees that there has been a greater crackdown on the Gulf Cartel in both the U.S. and Mexico, with more than 600 members of the gang arrested in September. But he declined to answer questions about Mexico favoring Sinaloa.

Calderon has long acknowledged corruption as an obstacle to his offensive, which involved sending more than 20,000 soldiers to battle drug trafficking throughout the country. The U.S. aid plan includes technology aimed at improving the way Mexico vets and supervises police.

The president vows to create a "new generation of police," consolidating agencies under Public Safety Secretary Genaro Garcia Luna, who heads all federal law enforcement.

That's what worries Granados Salero and other agents. So many of Garcia Luna's associates are under suspicion of Sinaloa ties that many wonder how he could not have known.

Calderon has publicly backed Garcia Luna, calling him "a man of great capacity."

"Obviously, if there was any doubt about his honesty, or any evidence that would call into question his honesty, he would certainly no longer be the secretary of public safety," the president said recently.

But some see the alleged Sinaloa ties with Garcia Luna's lieutenants as an old tactic used widely under the Institutional Revolutionary Party, or PRI, which ruled Mexico for 71 years with a tight fist. Officials in the past preferred to deal with one strong cartel rather than many warring gangs — what Calderon faces now. More than 5,300 people died in drug-related slayings in 2008.

"I fear that Secretary Garcia Luna ... is working on the idea that once one cartel consolidates itself as the winner, that is, Sinaloa, the violence is going to drop," said organized crime expert Edgardo Buscaglia, who tracks federal police arrests and has studied law enforcement agencies' written reports.

Garcia Luna has denied being involved in corruption. He has acknowledged that authorities in the past chose the path of managing cartels. But in an interview with the newspaper El Sol, he said that approach only strengthens the gangs in the long run.

Others say the high number of Sinaloa infiltrators is a reflection of the two cartels' very different styles.

The Gulf cartel is led by military-trained hit men so violent that they reportedly planned to attack even U.S. law enforcement agencies.

"They don't necessarily try to build networks of corruption. They prefer networks of intimidation," said Monte Alejandro Rubido, who leads Mexico's multi-agency National Security System.

Sinaloa, on the other hand, appears to use bribery and infiltration at least as much as its gunmen. Cartel leader Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman bribed his way out of a Mexican prison in 2001, provoking suspicions the government was on his side.

Many Mexicans worry about giving so much money and power to a still corrupt force. Of more than 56,000 local and state police officers evaluated between January and October last year, fewer than half met the recommended qualifications, Calderon reported to Congress in early December. No similar numbers are available for federal police.

Agents like Granados Salero wonder who is in charge of police integrity.

"We agents find out about a lot of things," he said, "but who can we turn to?"


"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives."
Winter is Coming

Now this is the Law of the Jungle—as old and as true as the sky; And the wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the wolf that shall break it must die.
As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk, the Law runneth forward and back; For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.
Re: Santiago Meza [Re: Lilo] #529844
01/25/09 08:17 AM
01/25/09 08:17 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
Lilo Offline
Lilo  Offline

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
So it is worse than I thought.

U.S. military report warns 'sudden collapse' of Mexico is possible

EL PASO - Mexico is one of two countries that "bear consideration for a rapid and sudden collapse," according to a report by the U.S. Joint Forces Command on worldwide security threats.

The command's "Joint Operating Environment (JOE 2008)" report, which contains projections of global threats and potential next wars, puts Pakistan on the same level as Mexico. "In terms of worse-case scenarios for the Joint Force and indeed the world, two large and important states bear consideration for a rapid and sudden collapse:

Pakistan and Mexico.

"The Mexican possibility may seem less likely, but the government, its politicians, police and judicial infrastructure are all under sustained assault and press by criminal gangs and drug cartels. How that internal conflict turns out over the next several years will have a major impact on the stability of the Mexican state. Any descent by Mexico into chaos would demand an American response based on the serious implications for homeland security alone."

The U.S. Joint Forces Command, based in Norfolk, Va., is one of the Defense Departments combat commands that includes members of the different military service branches, active and reserves, as well as civilian and contract employees. One of its key roles is to help transform the U.S. military's capabilities.

In the foreword, Marine Gen. J.N. Mattis, the USJFC commander, said "Predictions about the future are always risky ... Regardless, if we do not try to forecast the future, there is no doubt that we will be caught off guard as we strive to protect this experiment in democracy that we call America."

The report is one in a series focusing on Mexico's internal security problems, mostly stemming from drug violence and drug corruption. In recent weeks, the Department of Homeland Security and former U.S. drug czar Barry McCaffrey issued similar alerts about Mexico.

Despite such reports, El Pasoan Veronica Callaghan, a border business leader, said she keeps running into people in the region who "are in denial about what is happening in Mexico."

Last week, Mexican President Felipe Calderon instructed his embassy and consular officials to promote a positive image of Mexico.

Diana Washington Valdez may be reached at dvaldez@elpasotimes.com; 546-6140.[size:11pt][/size]


"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives."
Winter is Coming

Now this is the Law of the Jungle—as old and as true as the sky; And the wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the wolf that shall break it must die.
As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk, the Law runneth forward and back; For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.
Re: Santiago Meza [Re: Lilo] #529866
01/25/09 01:19 PM
01/25/09 01:19 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,518
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,518
AZ
Associated Press yesterday said that a dozen top police officials close to President Calderon were removed because of ties to the Sinaloa Cartel.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Santiago Meza [Re: Turnbull] #529887
01/25/09 03:32 PM
01/25/09 03:32 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,849
Netherlands
M.M. Floors Offline OP
Underboss
M.M. Floors  Offline OP
Underboss
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,849
Netherlands
Well Turnbull, that says enough I think. If top officials related to Calderon have ties with cartels it seems like the power of the cartels is massive. Interesting stuff.

1)Is there any good book written about it?
2)Did you people already knew the name of Santiago Meza before I told this?

Re: Santiago Meza [Re: M.M. Floors] #529893
01/25/09 04:41 PM
01/25/09 04:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
Lilo Offline
Lilo  Offline

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
No, I hadn't heard of Santiago Meza before.

There are several books on the subject. Sadly I have not gotten around to reading most of them yet. I am reading The Mexican Mafia by Tony Rafael now. It is pretty good. However it is primarily concerned with La Eme and only peripherally with the much more powerful cartels.

I just bought The Black Hand by Chris Blatchford which is centered around Boxer Enriquez, who is also Eme, not cartel.

I have heard good things about the book Narcocorrido by Elijah Wald, which discusses cartel influence in the Mexican entertainment world -primarily music- and the resulting murders or extortions of singers or musicians.

I have also seen good reviews of the book Herencia Maldita(Cursed Inheritance), a discussion of the cartels by the Mexican journalist Ricardo Ravelo.

Report to Congress on Cartels.
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/RL34215.pdf

But most of what I know has come from reading an increasing number of articles in the NYT, WSJ, El Paso Times, LA Times which discuss the rising level of cartel directed violence in Mexico and well as the trickle down effect. Kidnapping is really big business in Mexico and it's not just the cartels who are doing it.

Several of the cartels' members are police or military. This brings a new level of violence and brutality to the crime business, not to mention better weaponry..


"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives."
Winter is Coming

Now this is the Law of the Jungle—as old and as true as the sky; And the wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the wolf that shall break it must die.
As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk, the Law runneth forward and back; For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.
Re: Santiago Meza [Re: Lilo] #529895
01/25/09 04:43 PM
01/25/09 04:43 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,518
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,518
AZ
I hadn't heard of Meza, either. But I live in Arizona, a state that shares a long border with Mexico. So, there's plenty of coverage of Mexican drug cartels in our news media.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Santiago Meza [Re: Turnbull] #530643
02/03/09 08:21 AM
02/03/09 08:21 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
Lilo Offline
Lilo  Offline

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
A long article about drug smuggling and cartel activity along southern border. Mention is made of growing cartel links to prison gangs and other US criminal groups, increasing cultivation of marijuana inside the US to avoid Border Patrol, growing geographic dispersal of cartel backed groups and the violence in Mexico which according to one US lawman has some Mexican police and politicians hiding in the US.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/02/us/02pot.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=mexico%20marijuana&st=cse


"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives."
Winter is Coming

Now this is the Law of the Jungle—as old and as true as the sky; And the wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the wolf that shall break it must die.
As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk, the Law runneth forward and back; For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.

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