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Re: Would Hagen Have Approved Of Vincent? [Re: Alexander Kokotas] #397882
06/04/07 08:27 AM
06/04/07 08:27 AM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,019
Buenos Aires, Argentina
Don Pappo Napolitano Offline
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Don Pappo Napolitano  Offline
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Buenos Aires, Argentina
He wouldn`t. Tom Hagen was well trained by Vito Corleone, the most powerful weapon Tom always had was the clever speech. This is about talking when it`s only neccesary and specific and short words, using the ambiguity and sarcasm if neccesary. Of course, Vincent doesn`t have that kind of skill.

Last edited by Don Pappo Napolitano; 06/04/07 08:28 AM.

Pelé is the King
Maradona is God!
Re: Would Hagen Have Approved Of Vincent? [Re: Don Pappo Napolitano] #397887
06/04/07 08:55 AM
06/04/07 08:55 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 316
Toronto, Canada
UnderBoss Offline
Capo
UnderBoss  Offline
Capo
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Posts: 316
Toronto, Canada
I agree with Don Al DeBrando, his post perfectly echo's my impression of the scenario's outcome. Vincent went through a big transformation in GFIII, from an unsophisticated hoodlum who knew "certainly dressed for it" to a much more calm and sophisticated person, this is evident through his manner by the end. However, he was a hot headed individual at the beginning, brash and quick tempered. But he certainly learned. He had loved to Sophia's Character, pretty deep love, but he did give it up, which was the intelligent move. Now if he totally followed Michael's ways he would wait for Michael to die to have her, but that's neither here nor there. I think the key to his personality change is in this act. Why? Well because Sonny never overcame his temper. He didn't do the right thing and it was a fatal error, when he went after Carlo for the second time in GF1, in that case Sonny was ruled by emotion, but Vincent made the intelligent choice, which meant he conquered his battle, mind vs emotion or at least learnt how to keep it in check.

In that light, I feel Hagen would have been disapproving or apprehensive at first. I think by GFIII, he would have enough faith in Michael to trust his instinct and it would have been a subtle point, adding further depth to the story and intricacy... only if FFC choose Duvall over a staircase... WHY? WHY?

Last edited by UnderBoss; 06/04/07 08:56 AM.
Re: Would Hagen Have Approved Of Vincent? [Re: UnderBoss] #397900
06/04/07 10:48 AM
06/04/07 10:48 AM
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Posts: 19,518
AZ
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Hagen would have disapproved of Vincent. But he was the most loyal of family retainers. I think if Michael asked him to stay on with Vincent, he would have agreed. Plus, at his age by the time of GFIII (he'd have been almost 70), he really had no other career options.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Would Hagen Have Approved Of Vincent? [Re: Turnbull] #397977
06/04/07 02:26 PM
06/04/07 02:26 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 295
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I can see the reasoning behind both arguments "Tom for.." and Tom against.."

BUT remember... "preserving the family" is the goal at this point.... so I say Tom goes along and does ALL he can to help Vincent be successful(and to learn)


"What I want.... whats most important to me... is that I have a guarantee" - Train approaches.... Bang! Bang! Bang!
Re: Would Hagen Have Approved Of Vincent? [Re: Alexander Kokotas] #398058
06/04/07 10:46 PM
06/04/07 10:46 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,539
My own world.
whisper Offline
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whisper  Offline
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I really disliked the fact that Michael "passed on " the power of the family to Vincent.It was not a smart move and it just seemed "out of character" and lazy for Michael.As for my answer to this question: i believe Tom would have disapproved.


The hero and the coward both feel the same thing, but the hero uses his fear, projects it onto his opponent, while the coward runs. It's the same thing, fear, but it's what you do with it that matters. Cus D'Amato
Re: Would Hagen Have Approved Of Vincent? [Re: whisper] #398169
06/05/07 11:21 AM
06/05/07 11:21 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238
The Ravenite Social Club
Don Cardi Offline OP
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Don Cardi  Offline OP
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 Originally Posted By: whisper the don from down under
I really disliked the fact that Michael "passed on " the power of the family to Vincent.It was not a smart move and it just seemed "out of character" and lazy for Michael.As for my answer to this question: i believe Tom would have disapproved.


Who do you think that he should have passed it on to?



Don Cardi cool

Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.




Re: Would Hagen Have Approved Of Vincent? [Re: Don Cardi] #398199
06/05/07 01:00 PM
06/05/07 01:00 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline
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dontomasso  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
 Originally Posted By: Don Cardi
 Originally Posted By: whisper the don from down under
I really disliked the fact that Michael "passed on " the power of the family to Vincent.It was not a smart move and it just seemed "out of character" and lazy for Michael.As for my answer to this question: i believe Tom would have disapproved.


Who do you think that he should have passed it on to?



Tony Soprano


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: Would Hagen Have Approved Of Vincent? [Re: Don Cardi] #398349
06/05/07 11:18 PM
06/05/07 11:18 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,539
My own world.
whisper Offline
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whisper  Offline
Underboss
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,539
My own world.
 Originally Posted By: Don Cardi
 Originally Posted By: whisper the don from down under
I really disliked the fact that Michael "passed on " the power of the family to Vincent.It was not a smart move and it just seemed "out of character" and lazy for Michael.As for my answer to this question: i believe Tom would have disapproved.


Who do you think that he should have passed it on to?


Im not sure if the rules of the mob allow this,but i think with time,Michael maybe couldeve trained and taught Connie to take the reigns.In part three it already shows how ruthless and cunning she can be.Also it would have been a fresh twist having a female "run" things.Just a thought.

Last edited by whisper the don from down under; 06/05/07 11:19 PM.

The hero and the coward both feel the same thing, but the hero uses his fear, projects it onto his opponent, while the coward runs. It's the same thing, fear, but it's what you do with it that matters. Cus D'Amato
Re: Would Hagen Have Approved Of Vincent? [Re: whisper] #398419
06/06/07 08:13 AM
06/06/07 08:13 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238
The Ravenite Social Club
Don Cardi Offline OP
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Don Cardi  Offline OP
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 Originally Posted By: whisper the don from down under
 Originally Posted By: Don Cardi
 Originally Posted By: whisper the don from down under
I really disliked the fact that Michael "passed on " the power of the family to Vincent.It was not a smart move and it just seemed "out of character" and lazy for Michael.As for my answer to this question: i believe Tom would have disapproved.


Who do you think that he should have passed it on to?


Im not sure if the rules of the mob allow this,but i think with time,Michael maybe couldeve trained and taught Connie to take the reigns.In part three it already shows how ruthless and cunning she can be.Also it would have been a fresh twist having a female "run" things.Just a thought.



And she could have made Mary her Consigliere!





Don Cardi cool

Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.




Re: Would Hagen Have Approved Of Vincent? [Re: Don Cardi] #398507
06/06/07 12:37 PM
06/06/07 12:37 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline
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dontomasso  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
 Originally Posted By: Don Cardi[/quote





And she could have made Mary her Consigliere!


[/quote]


Yeah then when MAry screwed up she could lose it and say "Your father had Hagen, look what I've got, you spoiled guinea brat!


(BTW is a "spoiled guinea brat" an italian sausage gone bad?)




"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: Would Hagen Have Approved Of Vincent? [Re: dontomasso] #398512
06/06/07 12:48 PM
06/06/07 12:48 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1
H
Harford1031 Offline
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Associate
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Posts: 1
I am trying to find out who killed the two hitmen in Part II that tried to kill Michael. It wasn't Fredo so who did it?

Re: Would Hagen Have Approved Of Vincent? [Re: Harford1031] #398561
06/06/07 04:28 PM
06/06/07 04:28 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238
The Ravenite Social Club
Don Cardi Offline OP
Caporegime
Don Cardi  Offline OP
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Try doing a search or scrolling down this Godfather Trilogy Thread. You'll find that this exact question has been asked and discussed many times over the years. As a matter of fact it was just recently discussed again right here in this thread.

Welcome to the boards.



Don Cardi cool

Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.




Re: Would Hagen Have Approved Of Vincent? [Re: Don Cardi] #398707
06/07/07 04:10 AM
06/07/07 04:10 AM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,539
My own world.
whisper Offline
Underboss
whisper  Offline
Underboss
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,539
My own world.
 Originally Posted By: Don Cardi
 Originally Posted By: whisper the don from down under
 Originally Posted By: Don Cardi
 Originally Posted By: whisper the don from down under
I really disliked the fact that Michael "passed on " the power of the family to Vincent.It was not a smart move and it just seemed "out of character" and lazy for Michael.As for my answer to this question: i believe Tom would have disapproved.


Who do you think that he should have passed it on to?


Im not sure if the rules of the mob allow this,but i think with time,Michael maybe couldeve trained and taught Connie to take the reigns.In part three it already shows how ruthless and cunning she can be.Also it would have been a fresh twist having a female "run" things.Just a thought.



And she could have made Mary her Consigliere!



LOL Fair enough,it might sound like a stupid idea but it was just something i pondered about once or twice.


The hero and the coward both feel the same thing, but the hero uses his fear, projects it onto his opponent, while the coward runs. It's the same thing, fear, but it's what you do with it that matters. Cus D'Amato
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