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The script in GFII
#32470
09/09/05 10:52 PM
09/09/05 10:52 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 56
Sorentino
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In the official script, Sandra Corleone, who is sonny's wife, plays lots of roles in GF II. But none of that made it to the movie. Anyone know why? One scene there is Tom and Sandra kissing each other in the mouth. http://imsdb.com/scripts/Godfather-Part-II.html control+F Sandra and you see she is in the script alot.
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Re: The script in GFII
#32472
09/10/05 12:54 AM
09/10/05 12:54 AM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,518 AZ
Turnbull
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Originally posted by Don Andrew: Tom supposedly had an affair with Sandra, and Michael said something to the effect of "You can take your mistress with you..." But it wasn't kept in the final cut. Michael did tell Tom that he could move himself "and your mistress" to Vegas in the boathouse scene that made the cut of GFII. But there was no indication that it was Sandra. In fact, Sandra appears only in a deleted scene (one of the best) with her daughter Francesca and her fiancee, Gardiner Shaw. Probably the simplest explanation for the non-appearance of the Tom/Sandra affair (and all the other stuff that appeared in earlier scripts that didn't make the cut) is that they would have complicated the plot, and lengthened a film that was already pushing the envelop for both complexity and length.
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu, E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu... E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
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Re: The script in GFII
#32474
09/10/05 09:32 AM
09/10/05 09:32 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 385 Tampa, FL
waynethegame
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I agree 100% that it's better this wasn't in the final script. The novel especially shows how grateful Tom was to Sonny for taking him in; what kind of scumbag would he be if he screwed around with his stepbrother's widow??
Wayne
"Finance is a gun. Politics is knowing when to pull the trigger." Don Lucchesi
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Re: The script in GFII
#32475
09/10/05 09:47 AM
09/10/05 09:47 AM
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,058 The Slippery Slope
plawrence
RIP StatMan
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What would make him a scumbag was that he was screwing around on his wife, not that it was with Sandra.
You could argue that it was very compassionate of him to want to look after Sandra, the widow of his stepbrother.
If you died, wouldn't you feel good to know that your widow was in the good hands of someone you knew and could trust?
"Difficult....not impossible"
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Re: The script in GFII
#32476
09/10/05 10:04 AM
09/10/05 10:04 AM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,046 Miami, FL
Don Andrew
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Originally posted by Turnbull: Originally posted by Don Andrew: [b] Tom supposedly had an affair with Sandra, and Michael said something to the effect of "You can take your mistress with you..." But it wasn't kept in the final cut. Michael did tell Tom that he could move himself "and your mistress" to Vegas in the boathouse scene that made the cut of GFII. But there was no indication that it was Sandra. In fact, Sandra appears only in a deleted scene (one of the best) with her daughter Francesca and her fiancee, Gardiner Shaw. Probably the simplest explanation for the non-appearance of the Tom/Sandra affair (and all the other stuff that appeared in earlier scripts that didn't make the cut) is that they would have complicated the plot, and lengthened a film that was already pushing the envelop for both complexity and length. [/b]Oh, I see. Thanks for the explanation, Turnbull.
Hey, how's it going?
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Re: The script in GFII
#32480
09/14/05 10:23 PM
09/14/05 10:23 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224 New Jersey
AppleOnYa
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
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Originally posted by Sorentino: [QUOTE]...Cousin relationships count as incest, don't they nowadays?... There's the actual scene from GFIII, where among other things Michael & Anthony are trying to talk Mary out of this relationship with Vincent. I believe one of the things Michael says is, "Mary...he's your first cousin!" Mary, being the bright one she is, replies: "I love him, dad." Sure it was incest. I'll really never know why FFC chose to incorporate such a ridiculous subplot into GFIII. Of course...I'll never know why FFC chose to do alot of things with regard to GFIII...!!! Apple
A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.
- THOMAS JEFFERSON
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Re: The script in GFII
#32481
09/15/05 06:09 AM
09/15/05 06:09 AM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 56
Sorentino
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Originally posted by AppleOnYa: Originally posted by Sorentino: [b] [QUOTE]...Cousin relationships count as incest, don't they nowadays?... Of course...I'll never know why FFC chose to do alot of things with regard to GFIII...!!!
Apple [/b]Yeh exactly, i don't even wanna go there with the mistakes in GFIII
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Re: The script in GFII
#32484
09/15/05 07:04 PM
09/15/05 07:04 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224 New Jersey
AppleOnYa
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New Jersey
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Originally posted by Lavinia from Italy: [QUOTE]...my opinion the word "incest" relates more to parents/children and brother/sister relationships than to cousins. Two first cousins can legally marry (at least here in Italy they can)... If you're blood relatives, it's incest. King Henry VIII in order to be able to do away with his second wife Anne Bolyn, had her put on trial for among other things, sleeping with her brother. Mary & Vincent were 1st cousins. Their fathers were brothers. Incest. Whether or not it's ok to marry (at least in Italy) isn't really the main point. The main point is that FFC had a myriad of subplots/relationships within the Corleone circle to explore and write about. A love affair between two cousins, one of them a fabricated bastard, the product of an extramarital affair who shouldn't have even been welcome into the family but nevertheless eventually became DON CORLEONE...was frankly a waste of good writing talent. Apple Apple
A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.
- THOMAS JEFFERSON
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Re: The script in GFII
#32485
09/15/05 08:30 PM
09/15/05 08:30 PM
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,058 The Slippery Slope
plawrence
RIP StatMan
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The Slippery Slope
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Why shouldn't Vincent have been welcomed into the family?
He was still Michael's nephew, regardless of the fact that he was the product of an extra-marital relationship.
I agree that it was rather farfetched that he became the Don, but still, he was Michael's nephew.
"Difficult....not impossible"
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Re: The script in GFII
#32487
09/15/05 08:55 PM
09/15/05 08:55 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238 The Ravenite Social Club
Don Cardi
Caporegime
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Caporegime
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The Ravenite Social Club
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Originally posted by AppleOnYa: I believe one of the things Michael says is, "Mary...he's your first cousin!"
Mary, being the bright one she is, replies: "I love him, dad."
The line that she says in that scene, one which I remember so vividly because I thought it was such a week line, is "Then I love him first!" Don Cardi
Don Cardi Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.
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Re: The script in GFII
#32488
09/15/05 11:14 PM
09/15/05 11:14 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 330 Warsaw
Joe Batters
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At the begining of the script why was Don Cicci's name changed from Don Francesco....the part when Vito's mother was pleading for his life she calls him Cicci and it says Francesco in the script. anybody know??? Joe Batters
Aspanu summon the all of the chiefs DEATH TO ALL WHO BETRAY GIULIANO!
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Re: The script in GFII
#32489
09/16/05 07:45 AM
09/16/05 07:45 AM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224 New Jersey
AppleOnYa
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
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Originally posted by plawrence: Why shouldn't Vincent have been welcomed into the family? He was still Michael's nephew, regardless of the fact that he was the product of an extra-marital relationship.... True, he was still Michael's nephew. But Michael also had other nephews, such as Connie's children and at least one other son from Sonny & Sandra's marriage (did they have any more besides the twin girls?). So even with the introduction of Vincent into the story, and Anthony having no interest in the Family Business...I've posted here in the past that it might've made a MUCH more interesting and believable story for him to at least rival his legitimate cousins and brother for the top spot in the family. Instead of this ridiculous love story subplot. Vincent could've been welcomed into the family, sure. But with his character came many possibilities/subplots that went unexplored; in favor of a dopey affair with his cousin, whom he eventually gave up to become Head of the Corleone Family. And Michael pretty much declaing, "Allright, you can be Don if you promise never to see my daughter again...", is another pretty unbelievable conclusion to have been reached. Apple
A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.
- THOMAS JEFFERSON
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Re: The script in GFII
#32490
09/16/05 08:33 AM
09/16/05 08:33 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,735
Lavinia from Italy
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Originally posted by AppleOnYa: A love affair between two cousins is not such a rarity, believe me. It can happen. It happens. It's life. Maybe FFC decided to add this event for dramatic purpose. It doesn't annoy me at all. Originally posted by AppleOnYa: one of them a fabricated bastard, the product of an extramarital affair OMG, you are merciless, Apple! I would never dream to call an illegitimate child "a bastard", he's a child, that's all! Originally posted by AppleOnYa: who shouldn't have even been welcome into the family OMG, he was SONNY's blood, after all!
I don't want realism. I want magic! Yes, yes, magic. I try to give that to people. I do misrepresent things. I don't tell the truth. I tell what ought to be truth (Blanche/A streetcar named desire)
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Re: The script in GFII
#32491
09/16/05 08:36 AM
09/16/05 08:36 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,735
Lavinia from Italy
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Originally posted by Don Cardi: More scenes should have been shot showing us how Michael was schooling/grooming him for the leadership role. It would have been better to see scenes like that than all the ones we were shown involving him and Mary. No doubt GFIII was a rushed movie, and it showed. I absolutely agree, DC. Originally posted by Don Cardi: FFC could have done so much more with the Vincent character, the son of one of the most fan favorite characters of the original Godfather. That's the only reason why I could stand for a GF4!!!
I don't want realism. I want magic! Yes, yes, magic. I try to give that to people. I do misrepresent things. I don't tell the truth. I tell what ought to be truth (Blanche/A streetcar named desire)
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Re: The script in GFII
#32492
09/16/05 09:17 AM
09/16/05 09:17 AM
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,058 The Slippery Slope
plawrence
RIP StatMan
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RIP StatMan
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The Slippery Slope
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Originally posted by AppleOnYa: True, he was still Michael's nephew. But Michael also had other nephews, such as Connie's children I always had the impression that Michael was not too enamored of Connie's kids ("Do you know that your oldest son Victor was arrested in Reno on some petty theft charge?"). Plus, if you were Michael, do you think you could have trusted the son(s) of a man you had killed? That might have even made a better plot for GF III: The revenge of Carlo's sons, over the objections of Connie, her loyalties torn between her children and her brother.
"Difficult....not impossible"
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Re: The script in GFII
#32493
09/16/05 11:21 AM
09/16/05 11:21 AM
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 17,300 New York
Sicilian Babe
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 17,300
New York
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Originally posted by plawrence: Originally posted by AppleOnYa: [b] True, he was still Michael's nephew. But Michael also had other nephews, such as Connie's children I always had the impression that Michael was not too enamored of Connie's kids ("Do you know that your oldest son Victor was arrested in Reno on some petty theft charge?").
Plus, if you were Michael, do you think you could have trusted the son(s) of a man you had killed?
That might have even made a better plot for GF III: The revenge of Carlo's sons, over the objections of Connie, her loyalties torn between her children and her brother. [/b]Too bad we don't know anyone with a flair for writing who had once started a Godfather sequel....
President Emeritus of the Neal Pulcawer Fan Club
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Re: The script in GFII
#32495
09/16/05 07:45 PM
09/16/05 07:45 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224 New Jersey
AppleOnYa
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
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Originally posted by plawrence: [QUOTE]...I always had the impression that Michael was not too enamored of Connie's kids ("Do you know that your oldest son Victor was arrested in Reno on some petty theft charge?"). Plus, if you were Michael, do you think you could have trusted the son(s) of a man you had killed?... All the more reason why the inclusion of Connie's children, as well as Sonny's son Frank (half-brother of 'the bastard') could have made for a far more interesting family dynamic than the stupid incestual affair we got. Just your statements above, plawrence...suggest the exciting story that could've come out of such turmoil. Lavinia from Italy...I am sure that affairs and even marriages between 1st cousins happen all the time (especially as you suggest, in Italy). However as history has proven in the case of GFIII, such affairs do not necessarily make for good movie entertainment. Apple
A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.
- THOMAS JEFFERSON
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Re: The script in GFII
#32496
09/16/05 11:15 PM
09/16/05 11:15 PM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 44 home of the wildcats, kentucky
belle
Wiseguy
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Wiseguy
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 44
home of the wildcats, kentucky
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Okay the girl from Kentucky is going to have to chime in on the kissin cousins topic. Seriously I know a lady whose parents were 1st cousins, her parents had five children, one was mentally retarded, one died in infancy from something related to inbreeding, and the others all have mild retardation and/or extra fingers and toes. No joke. So we should be thankful that Mary got whacked and that there are no retarded, extra fingered Corleones running amuck.
Winegardner sleeps with the fishes.
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Re: The script in GFII
#32497
09/16/05 11:25 PM
09/16/05 11:25 PM
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,058 The Slippery Slope
plawrence
RIP StatMan
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The Slippery Slope
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All true, Apple.
I only took exception to your statement that Vincent was "a fabricated bastard, the product of an extramarital affair who shouldn't have even been welcome into the family."
Seems rather coldhearted and judgemental on your part.
If I found that I had a long lost close relative, I'd welcome him into the "family" with open arms, the product of an illicit love ffair or not. They'd still be my blood.
And Vincent apparently was not even "long lost". Seemingly he'd been in the picture, and accepted by Michael, for a while.
"Difficult....not impossible"
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Re: The script in GFII
#32498
09/17/05 04:49 AM
09/17/05 04:49 AM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 22,902 New York
SC
Consigliere
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Consigliere
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New York
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Originally posted by plawrence: And Vincent apparently was "long lost". Seemingly he'd been in the picture, and accepted by Michael, for a while. Ya think?? Why'd Connie introduce Vincent (to Michael) by saying: "Michael, you know Vincent Mancini -- Sonny’s boy". She not only included his last name but his relationship to the family. I think she was afraid Michael wouldn't know who Vincent was.
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