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Kay's Abortion and Questadt Questions #520891
11/17/08 08:22 PM
11/17/08 08:22 PM
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Sopranorleone Offline OP
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While watching GFII today for the upteenth time, I thought of 2 questions that may be considered minute in their importance, but are still fun to discuss anyway:

1. In the hotel room scene, where Kay reveals her abortion, she says, "I couldn't bring another one of your sons into this world," emphasizing "sons." So, if she were carrying a baby girl, would she still have gotten an abortion? I think this says something about her - was she too fed up with Michael or with the life he and her were living? I believe the latter, since she says that she always loved Michael in GF3.

2. Michael famously states, "I don't feel I have to wipe everybody out, Tom. Just my enemies." When Fredo informs Mike that Questadt belonged to Roth, certainly the Senator is considered Mike's enemy. Seeing as Michael never let anyone really "off the hook," did he exact revenge on Questadt? Not necessarily right after the hearing, as that would cause too much heat, but sometime after? Anyone think murder or perhaps a setup similar to Geary's?


Thoughts?

Re: Kay's Abortion and Questadt Questions [Re: Sopranorleone] #520900
11/17/08 09:24 PM
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olivant Offline
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I'd take her at her word.

Questadt is not a Senator.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
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Re: Kay's Abortion and Questadt Questions [Re: olivant] #520909
11/17/08 10:46 PM
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Still, he's an enemy to Mike. Actually, that probably just makes him an easier target.

Re: Kay's Abortion and Questadt Questions [Re: Sopranorleone] #520934
11/18/08 05:46 AM
11/18/08 05:46 AM
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I don't think that in the late 50s Kay could determine the sex of her child before it was born.

Re: Kay's Abortion and Questadt Questions [Re: Danito] #520935
11/18/08 06:17 AM
11/18/08 06:17 AM
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She didn't literally Mean "Son" when she said it. She meant another child in general.


The hero and the coward both feel the same thing, but the hero uses his fear, projects it onto his opponent, while the coward runs. It's the same thing, fear, but it's what you do with it that matters. Cus D'Amato
Re: Kay's Abortion and Questadt Questions [Re: whisper] #520943
11/18/08 10:03 AM
11/18/08 10:03 AM
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The Last Woltz Offline
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Originally Posted By: whisper
She didn't literally Mean "Son" when she said it. She meant another child in general.


What makes you think that? She seems to go out of her way at least twice to specify that it was a son.


Originally Posted By: danito
I don't think that in the late 50s Kay could determine the sex of her child before it was born.


Good point. According to Tom, she was 3 1/2 months pregnant. I think that, even with ultrasound technology, only in the last 5 years have they tried to determine the sex of babies earlier than 16 weeks.


"A man in my position cannot afford to be made to look ridiculous!"
Re: Kay's Abortion and Questadt Questions [Re: The Last Woltz] #520951
11/18/08 11:04 AM
11/18/08 11:04 AM
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I think that Kay chose to refer to their unborn child as a "son" because that was the best way to hurt Michael. That whole rant of hers had only one purpose, and that was to hurt and anger Michael. And she knew that denying him another son was a good way to do it.

As for knowing the sex of the child, Tom tells Michael that they couldn't tell.

One thing I have always wondered is if Kay ever actually had an abortion. There's a very good chance that she didn't, that she naturally miscarried, but she knew that this was the best way to irreparably dissolve their marriage.

As for Questadt, as Roth would say, he's small potatoes.


President Emeritus of the Neal Pulcawer Fan Club
Re: Kay's Abortion and Questadt Questions [Re: The Last Woltz] #520952
11/18/08 11:07 AM
11/18/08 11:07 AM
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It is possible they could have determined the gender of the fetus if it was more or less intact aftr the abortion, however it is more likely she said this just to hurt Michael, who wanted another son (maybe he foresaw that Anthony would end up a wussy diva). In the scene at the dinner in Tahoe when they are dancing, Michael asks Kay if the baby she is carrying "feels like a boy." This means she knew by telling him she had his son killed would really push his buttons. She was right.


As for killing Questadt, my guess is that with Roth out of the way Questadt was small potatoes.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: Kay's Abortion and Questadt Questions [Re: dontomasso] #520954
11/18/08 11:17 AM
11/18/08 11:17 AM
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I agree with everyone here about Kay just wanting to hurt Michael by saying it was a boy. As for Questadt, he was small potatoes, so I never really gave it any thought as a "loose end" that needed tying up.

As far as "loose ends" are concerned, it always bothered me that we didn't see Michael avenge himself against the Rosato brothers, who like the Gallo brothers who inspired them, would have remained a danger due to their "cowboy" nature.

There's no mention of them in Part III, so we have to assume that Michael ordered them killed, but it would have been nice to see it (much like the Fabrizzio murder scenes which were cut).


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: Kay's Abortion and Questadt Questions [Re: pizzaboy] #520959
11/18/08 11:29 AM
11/18/08 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
There's no mention of them in Part III, so we have to assume that Michael ordered them killed, but it would have been nice to see it (much like the Fabrizzio murder scenes which were cut).


We only saw one Rosato Brother in II, and when he was approached to reprise the role in III he insisted there be two brothers, but FFC would not shell out the money, so they were written out.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: Kay's Abortion and Questadt Questions [Re: dontomasso] #520961
11/18/08 11:33 AM
11/18/08 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted By: dontomasso
Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
There's no mention of them in Part III, so we have to assume that Michael ordered them killed, but it would have been nice to see it (much like the Fabrizzio murder scenes which were cut).


We only saw one Rosato Brother in II, and when he was approached to reprise the role in III he insisted there be two brothers, but FFC would not shell out the money, so they were written out.


Danny Aiello, really?

Are you just fucking with me, Don T? lol

Actually, it wouldn't surprise me.


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: Kay's Abortion and Questadt Questions [Re: pizzaboy] #520962
11/18/08 11:37 AM
11/18/08 11:37 AM
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Actually, Aiello played Tony Rosato, Carmine Caridi played Carmine Rosato.

Caridi came back for Part III in a different role: one of the old dons in Atlantic City. I believe his claim to fame was, "my lucky coat!"


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: Kay's Abortion and Questadt Questions [Re: pizzaboy] #520963
11/18/08 11:47 AM
11/18/08 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
Actually, Aiello played Tony Rosato, Carmine Caridi played Carmine Rosato.

Caridi came back for Part III in a different role: one of the old dons in Atlantic City. I believe his claim to fame was, "my lucky coat!"


Ok so we saw two of them. What was never disclosed was that the Rosatos' parents were devout catholics and there were eleven Rosato Brothers. Ten of them worked for Roth, and one became a Priest. There is a movie in the making right now about them starring Brad Pitt and Leonardo Di Caprio. FFC would never shell out the money for the 10 Rosatos let alone all those scenes in which they were whacked.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: Kay's Abortion and Questadt Questions [Re: dontomasso] #520965
11/18/08 11:53 AM
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I figured it was something like that. whistle


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: Kay's Abortion and Questadt Questions [Re: dontomasso] #520984
11/18/08 12:55 PM
11/18/08 12:55 PM
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Turnbull Offline
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Originally Posted By: dontomasso
Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
Actually, Aiello played Tony Rosato, Carmine Caridi played Carmine Rosato.

Caridi came back for Part III in a different role: one of the old dons in Atlantic City. I believe his claim to fame was, "my lucky coat!"


Ok so we saw two of them. What was never disclosed was that the Rosatos' parents were devout catholics and there were eleven Rosato Brothers. Ten of them worked for Roth, and one became a Priest. There is a movie in the making right now about them starring Brad Pitt and Leonardo Di Caprio. FFC would never shell out the money for the 10 Rosatos let alone all those scenes in which they were whacked.

Nope. There were seven of them. After the attempt on Frankie failed, they changed their name to the Seven Santini Brothers, and went into the moving van business.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Kay's Abortion and Questadt Questions [Re: Sopranorleone] #520985
11/18/08 01:05 PM
11/18/08 01:05 PM
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Thoughtful questions, Sopranorleone. smile
I agree with the others about Kay pushing Michael's buttons. Medical science could not determine the gender of a fetus in the early stages of pregnancy in 1958/59. But it's possible that Kay could have asked the doctor who performed the abortion to determine the gender, just to satisfy her that she hadn't aborted a girl. And SB raised an ingenious point: what if it were a natural miscarriage? It's even more likely than an abortion because Kay was confined to the compound and a doctor would have had to do it there. Although anyone with money could get an abortion in those years, it might not have been easy to convince a doctor to get involved with the Corleones.

Michael would have regarded Questadt as a mere instrument in the plot to trap him into five counts of perjury. Roth laid the trap. And Questadt, as a Senate chief counsel in a televised hearing, would have been a very high-profile target whose killing would point directly to Michael. I've always wondered why Michael didn't go after Geary, who was a key player in the plot to trap him. Without Geary's complicity in the plot, Michael might not had such a close call with prison.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Kay's Abortion and Questadt Questions [Re: Turnbull] #520993
11/18/08 01:28 PM
11/18/08 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted By: Turnbull
Thoughtful questions, Sopranorleone. smile
I agree with the others about Kay pushing Michael's buttons. Medical science could not determine the gender of a fetus in the early stages of pregnancy in 1958/59. But it's possible that Kay could have asked the doctor who performed the abortion to determine the gender, just to satisfy her that she hadn't aborted a girl. And SB raised an ingenious point: what if it were a natural miscarriage? It's even more likely than an abortion because Kay was confined to the compound and a doctor would have had to do it there. Although anyone with money could get an abortion in those years, it might not have been easy to convince a doctor to get involved with the Corleones.

Michael would have regarded Questadt as a mere instrument in the plot to trap him into five counts of perjury. Roth laid the trap. And Questadt, as a Senate chief counsel in a televised hearing, would have been a very high-profile target whose killing would point directly to Michael. I've always wondered why Michael didn't go after Geary, who was a key player in the plot to trap him. Without Geary's complicity in the plot, Michael might not had such a close call with prison.



SB's point about it not being an abortion was raised I think in one of the Weingartner books. I think it would be risky for her to have an abortion because if she had to go to any doctor then someone would have taken her there and kept watch. Michael could easily have found out the doctors name and taken revenge against him.


As for Michael not going after Geary, I don't think he had to. Michael already had the goods on him and still could ruin him politically. Assuming Geary's complicity in the perjury trap, the bottom line is it didn't work. That attempt to get out from Michael's thumb was business, not personal, and Geary was of more use to Michael alive than dead. For instance he could have used Geary to put pressure on the right peole to get Questadt fired. He could have even told Geary not to duck our of committee harings where Michael was the target ever again, and to pass some special pork barrel legislation to build some roads in Las Vegas, or give some tax breaks to Hotel/Casinos, and who knows what else.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: Kay's Abortion and Questadt Questions [Re: dontomasso] #521080
11/19/08 12:51 AM
11/19/08 12:51 AM
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olivant Offline
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Apparently, amniocentesis for fetus sex determination began in the 50s.

But I like the idea that Kay might have actually miscarried and told Mike it was an abortion out of anger, disappointment, disillusionment, etc.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Kay's Abortion and Questadt Questions [Re: Sopranorleone] #522943
12/02/08 04:39 PM
12/02/08 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted By: Sopranorleone

2. Michael famously states, "I don't feel I have to wipe everybody out, Tom. Just my enemies." When Fredo informs Mike that Questadt belonged to Roth, certainly the Senator is considered Mike's enemy. Seeing as Michael never let anyone really "off the hook," did he exact revenge on Questadt? Not necessarily right after the hearing, as that would cause too much heat, but sometime after? Anyone think murder or perhaps a setup similar to Geary's?


Thoughts?


With Geary under Michael's thumb (more thn ever) I am sure he could get someone to "leak" word to the proper authorities and/or the press of Questadt's nefarious connections. This would eventually get Questadt fired, ostracized by all the big D.C. firms,and possibly disbarred. Michael probably would enjoy watching a man become ruined as much as he would enjoy having him killed.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: Kay's Abortion and Questadt Questions [Re: dontomasso] #523122
12/04/08 02:46 AM
12/04/08 02:46 AM
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Michael may have concluded that his escape from being exposed, and being tried on five counts of perjury, was enough close call to last a lifetime. Perhaps he felt that if he tried to exact vengeance on Questadt it'd be too obvious that he was behind the attempt. Besides, Questadt was doing Roth's bidding. Roth was the enemy, and Michael knew he was going to get Roth.

As some of us noted in an earlier thread, Michael dispatching Rocco on a suicide mission to get Roth was risk to Michael because Rocco was associated with him. But Roth was the enemy, and there was where he was willing to risk all--to get Roth


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Kay's Abortion and Questadt Questions [Re: Turnbull] #523300
12/05/08 04:02 PM
12/05/08 04:02 PM
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Wouldn't it be something if Kay had been pregnant with Neri's, or Rocco's, or Tom child? Makes me think. Maybe that's why Tom refused to accept Kay's letter to Mike.

"You know kay, we have alot in common. You're English and I'm Irish. We're kind of the same people. You're white as a sheet and I'm white as a ghost. You're not married and I'm...well...I'm married, but this is a stressful job and you're going through alot of stress, right. And Mike...well Mike, who knows? He may not be coming back Kay. You gonna wait forever?"


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
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Re: Kay's Abortion and Questadt Questions [Re: olivant] #524241
12/12/08 08:19 PM
12/12/08 08:19 PM
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Capo de La Cosa Nostra Offline
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If determining the sex of an aborted foetus was unavailable at the time of that scene, why does Michael ask Tom whether or not it was a boy or a girl?

Was such technology even available by 1974? (Is it a goof?)


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Re: Kay's Abortion and Questadt Questions [Re: Capo de La Cosa Nostra] #524246
12/12/08 09:21 PM
12/12/08 09:21 PM
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Although researchers knew for a long time that amneotic fluid could reveal genetic defects (and later, the sex of the fetus), amneosentesis was not a common procedure until the late '70's, when safe methods were devised for drawing fluid.

In 1958, if the "miscarriage" had occurred in the late stages, the sex of the fetus could have been determined. Michael was speaking out of ignorance. Tom answered him correctly for the era: "Mikey, after three months..." And Kay almost certainly couldn't have known that the aborted fetus was male. As others have pointed out in this thread, Kay may have been deliberately taunting Michael by claiming the aborted fetus was a boy.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Kay's Abortion and Questadt Questions [Re: Sopranorleone] #774836
04/29/14 08:47 PM
04/29/14 08:47 PM
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RedSeal Offline
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Seeing how Anthony and Mary turned out, Kay should have and would have been tormented by her decision "not to bring another child of Michael's into this world". But the inferior GF3 never addresses that.

I don't buy that there's any intentional ambiguity in the film about the fact that she had an abortion.

Re: Kay's Abortion and Questadt Questions [Re: RedSeal] #774900
04/30/14 09:22 AM
04/30/14 09:22 AM
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I don't doubt that Kay had an abortion. Though abortions were illegal in the US at the time, any woman with money could have arranged for a real doctor to abort her.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Kay's Abortion and Questadt Questions [Re: RedSeal] #774907
04/30/14 09:44 AM
04/30/14 09:44 AM
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The Last Woltz Offline
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Originally Posted By: RedSeal
Seeing how Anthony and Mary turned out, Kay should have and would have been tormented by her decision "not to bring another child of Michael's into this world". But the inferior GF3 never addresses that.


I think you've got this backwards.

Mary and Anthony turned out fine BECAUSE Kay had the abortion. She used the abortion to escape from Michael and, eventually, get the children away from him.

Had they stayed, Anthony would be a budding Mafia don instead of a budding opera star, and Mary would probably not be as good a person as she appeared to be.

I don't see any cause for Kay to regret the abortion on their account. Quite the opposite.


"A man in my position cannot afford to be made to look ridiculous!"
Re: Kay's Abortion and Questadt Questions [Re: The Last Woltz] #774969
04/30/14 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted By: The Last Woltz
Originally Posted By: RedSeal
Seeing how Anthony and Mary turned out, Kay should have and would have been tormented by her decision "not to bring another child of Michael's into this world". But the inferior GF3 never addresses that.


I think you've got this backwards.

Mary and Anthony turned out fine BECAUSE Kay had the abortion. She used the abortion to escape from Michael and, eventually, get the children away from him.


How did the abortion help her get anthony and mary from Michael? At the end of GF2, my perception was that they were mostly in Michael's custody.

Actually the baby she aborted was her best shot at getting a child away from Michael. She could have left him a few months into the pregnancy and had the child after filing for divorce.

Re: Kay's Abortion and Questadt Questions [Re: RedSeal] #774970
04/30/14 05:39 PM
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You might find this thread interesting:

.....

<edited to delete improper link - SC>

Last edited by SC; 04/30/14 06:03 PM. Reason: to remove improper link

Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Kay's Abortion and Questadt Questions [Re: RedSeal] #775069
05/01/14 09:58 AM
05/01/14 09:58 AM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 773
Pittsburgh, PA
The Last Woltz Offline
Underboss
The Last Woltz  Offline
Underboss
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 773
Pittsburgh, PA
Originally Posted By: RedSeal
Originally Posted By: The Last Woltz
Originally Posted By: RedSeal
Seeing how Anthony and Mary turned out, Kay should have and would have been tormented by her decision "not to bring another child of Michael's into this world". But the inferior GF3 never addresses that.


I think you've got this backwards.

Mary and Anthony turned out fine BECAUSE Kay had the abortion. She used the abortion to escape from Michael and, eventually, get the children away from him.


How did the abortion help her get anthony and mary from Michael? At the end of GF2, my perception was that they were mostly in Michael's custody.

Actually the baby she aborted was her best shot at getting a child away from Michael. She could have left him a few months into the pregnancy and had the child after filing for divorce.


As she tells Michael in DC, Kay had the abortion because that was the only thing she could do that would make Michael let her go.

Despite Tom's words to the contrary, Kay was a prisoner. She couldn't have just walked out on Michael and filed for divorce. She had to do something to make Michael no longer want her. The abortion did the trick.

As for Anthony and Mary, we don't see how she gets Michael to give them up, but she does, somewhere along the line. Obviously, they couldn't have gotten free of Michael if Kay had not already done so, so the abortion ended up liberating them as well.


"A man in my position cannot afford to be made to look ridiculous!"
Re: Kay's Abortion and Questadt Questions [Re: The Last Woltz] #775104
05/01/14 12:08 PM
05/01/14 12:08 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline
Consigliere to the Stars
dontomasso  Offline
Consigliere to the Stars

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
In III Michael makes the lame exvuse that after all that went on in II he sent the children to Kay to further education. What??? Michael didn't have the pull to get them into whatever schools they chose?

I think this is because Michael had an Ivy League education and because he had an affection for the New England WASP panache that he thought brough him "legitimacy" he let them go. Also maybe he was trying in his manipulative way to make another play for Kay.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

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