Freddo betrayed Michael, if Sonny was alive,what would Sonny have done?Fight against Michael?Would he agree to kill Freddo?Would he deal between Freddo and Michael for peace?Would Sonny accept Michael as a Don?Would he hate Michael like Freddo because Michael is the boss?

Uhm, it's Fredo, not Freddo.

I don't know about your questions. Sonny would certainly not betray Michael, but he would automatically have more power, that's the way he was. And he wouldn't agree in killing Fredo.

If Sonny was alive then Michael would have never been boss.

If Sonny remained alive then there would've been NO GFII, because he would've run the Corleone Family into the ground before Michael ever had the chance to touch it.

One of the main underlying themes of The Godfather was that Sonny, the eldest son and heir apparent, HAD to die so that the Family would ultimately end up under the guidance of the youngest and least likely son.

Apple

I agree, Had Sonny stayied alive Michael would have never become Don. But I would have feared for the destiny of the family if this had happened.

I disagree. If that's the case, then Fredo Corleone would have become Boss of the Corleone Family after Vito Corleone had died.

Oh, of course...then allow me to rephrase (even though that wasn't quite the original question):

If Sonny died and Fredo became 'boss' after Vito's death....then there would've been NO GFII, because he would've run the Corleone Family into the ground before Michael ever had the chance to touch it.

Besides...if Vito had intended for Fredo to run the family then he would've called him back from Vegas and begun to work with him and groom him in preparation for the inevitable. As we know from both the novel and movie...it was MICHAEL to whom Vito reluctantly handed the reigns, not his older surviving brother.

Apple

According to the novel, I'd agree with Peter.

Puzo wrote something to the effect that the position of Don "was by no means hereditary."

There was no way that Fredo was ever gonna hold the reins.

Had Sonny lived, I think that there's a fair chance - despite all of the "every man has but one true destiny" stuff - that Michael would have chosen to leave a life of crime completely. Had he stayed, I believe he almost surely would have deferred to Sonny as Don.

But he certainly would have been the #2 man, and the "behind the scenes brain" of the family, providing the intelligent reasonableness of his father as a counterpoint to Sonny's temper.

I don't think that Sonny had the brains for the big deals that Michael did either, nor did he have the long-term vision.

Actually, they might have made a very effective "Two-Headed Don", with Sonny as the outside man who handled the muscle end and keeping everyone in line, with Michael working behind the scenes by negotiating, making the money, and eventually legitimizing the family.

Precisely. If Sonny had lived he wouldn't have had the ability to bring Michael home from Sicily, and I would guess eventually Michael would have ben assassinated there.
Tom was going to fight the war to the bitter end regardless of the consequences. Tessio would have betrayed the family, and Clemenza just might have gone along with Tessio.
Tom would either jump ship or be shoved off for always trying to patch things up and the Corleone family would have been a distant memory.

Man You guys are genius's I think that would have been great Both Sonny AND Mike being a little faction, it would have been perfect the corleone Family would have survived forever I bet..........it would have made for a very different movie

By the way I found another Message Board on the Godfather and it was 300000000000000 X's weaker than this work of art...I mean there were people on there saying they Hated the movie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WHATS THIS WORLD COMMING TO???????



Joe Batters

You mean Sonny would have faught the war to the end?


Here is my question though, Mike settled all family business by killing the 4/5 heads of the other families, but that was partly Sonny's idea as well (or was it mostly Sonny's I don't remember) so what did Mike do that was any different than what Sonny would have done since neither of them were carrying out the hits.

Would he have still ran it into the ground without any real competition in NY?

Also, no one hear can tell me they wouldn't have loved to see Sonny instead of Mike with Moe Green in Vegas

Mike only pulled it off because the heads of the families were lulled into thinking they were at peace.

oh yeah

I could hear Sollozzo now, "A hundred and forty-two shots and he's still alive!"

There would have to be some serious rewrites to have Sonny be alive. plaw, can you get busy on that?

MC I'm sure the makers of the Scarface video game could give him some hints

If Sonny was alive, the other families would not have thought that the Corleone family was weak......and Sonny probably could not have wiped them out like Mikey and Don VIto did........Sonny was too hot headed to play weak.
But, with that said, you are all right......Sonny would have run the family into the ground, Mikey would have gotten assasinated, and Fredo would have been iced out in Vegas......the family would be no more.

The truth is, if Sonny had lived, he would not have been Don for a long time. Vito recovered, took over the reins, and made the peace to bring Michael home. Sonny would've returned to his position as head of his regime, and perhaps, after spending more time under Vito's tutelage, been a very different Don by the end of his father's life. Then, as suggested, after Vito had died, the three sons would've run the business, Fredo with the entertainment end, Michael with his business head, and Sonny the muscle end of the business. Quite a triumvirate.

Yeah. Like maybe Appolonia lives to come to America and then has a rivalry with her sister-in-law Sandra, each claiming her hubby would be the better Don.

And then Appolonia finally running Sandra down during a driving lesson, thereby causing Sonny to whack Michael for bringing this little ditz over from Sicily in the first place. Then, with both Sandra and Micheal out of the way, Sonny starts banging Appolonia since she's now good for little else...only both eventually end up dead due to a secret alliance between Clemenza and Tessio who cannot believe what a bunch of dimwits their Don has brought into the world.

Which of course leaves an open door to Fredo, who eventually comes home with Hyman Roth to take joint control of the Family. Once secure in his position Roth assasinates Fredo and then having sole and complete power over the Corleone Empire, moves the whole thing over to Israel.

Guess you're right, MaryCas...a couple of simple rewrites and ANYTHING's possible!!!!

Apple

But Roth can't swim. So Don Ciccio's grandson and Lucchese threw him into the Dead Sea, and took over the empire.

But you can't drown in the Dead Sea too much salt.

Of course they attached Rocco to Roth. Rocco had many stones in his pocket, so they drowned both.

Roth is soo old......he was around when the Dead Sea was just sick......
Thank you!!!! Thank you!!!! I will be here all week.......try the veal!!!!

Rim shot!

This family and their pets walk into a talent agent and tell him they have an act. The agent says "let me see it.... "

I agree. If Sonny was still alive, Vito would have had more time to tutor him. Sonny would have also succumbed to Vito's orders, and the top priority would still have been to get Michael home safely. Sonny would have never defied Vito. The plan still would have been to show weakness to the other families, and then strike. However I think that Sonny would have been the boss, and Michael either Sonny's consigliere or underboss. And if Sonny were alive then the attempt may have been made on his life with a setup by Fredo. But the difference would have been that Sonny would have beat the shit out of Fredo, and never would have had him killed. And if Michael would have advised Sonny that Fredo should be killed, then Sonny would have beaten the shit out of Michael also!


Don Cardi

Ah, the famous Santino Corleone temper!! However, I think that Sonny knew his role as head of the family was only because Vito was injured. And Vito would have been angry at some of the things Sonny had done, like killing the Tattaglia son. He would never have let Sonny remain in power. And the truth is, Fredo was never jealous of Sonny. Sonny was older, so Fredo had no reason to feel that he was bypassed for the role of Don. He never would've been a threat to his older brother.

Not while he was alive, but by your own admission, Vito would have groomed Sonny to take over the postion once Vito was gone.


Don Cardi

Oh, yes, absolutely. Sorry if I misunderstood your post. I thought you meant that Vito would not have taken back the reins of power.

If you are of the mind that a big part of the reason why Fredo betrayed Michael was jealousy and resentment of the fact that Michael was his younger brother and he (Fredo) was "stepped over", then there's no reason to think he would have betrayed Sonny as well.

Sonny, of course, was the older brother, and, as such, was always ahead of Fredo in the family pecking order.

Sonny commanded his own regime, while Fredo was just a.....um, just a......

What exactly was Fredo at the time of the assassination attempt on his father?

Anyway, there was no reason for Fredo to resent Sonny or feel any jealousy towards Sonny, hence, no betrayal.

Your point is well taken. However I am of the mind that the unintentional betrayal was more than just jealousy in itself. Yes jealousy played a part in Fredo's decision to "get involved," but if pure jealousy that was the motivating factor behind Fredo's talking with Roth's people, then that would spell intention and malice on Fredo's part. And I do NOT believe that there was any intent or malice to actually hurt Mike on Fredo's part. It was more of an overall insecurity that Fredo had because of the menial positions that he had been given within the family.

Fredo still would have felt like a "nothing" even if Sonny were alive. And there still may have been a deal between The Corleones and Roth. So Fredo still may have thought that there was something in it for him by doing something to HELP the negotiations along between Roth and The Corleones. Fredo would have wanted to prove his worth to Sonny as much as he did to Mike.

Don Cardi

The only unintentional betrayal on Fredo's part was that he truly didn't realize that his involvement would result in the nearly successful assasination attempt on Michael.

All the rest, the socializing with Ola, the talking with Roth's people, whatever information he provided that made that hit attempt possible...WAS intention and malice, and WAS motivated by pure jealousy. Because Fredo himself admitted to Michael the promise of 'something in it for him, on his own', if he helped Roth in so-called 'negotiations'.

While he may not have figured on physical harm coming to his brother as a result of the alliance with Roth, Fredo most certainly knew that he was helping someone whom Michael would not have wanted him to help. Therefore, Fredo's most certainly was an intentional betrayal, committed purely for personal gain, with malice, motivated by pure jealousy, envy and anger toward his kid brother, Don Corleone, in who's favor he was 'stepped over'.

Apple