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Can theMafia sue? #511062
09/22/08 09:00 PM
09/22/08 09:00 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 534
Lompac Offline OP
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Lompac  Offline OP
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The Mafia is supposed to a secret society, but the authorities have made it known. Do the mob have a case where they can sue?

Re: Can theMafia sue? [Re: Lompac] #511064
09/22/08 09:08 PM
09/22/08 09:08 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 599
Toronto, Ontario
D
dontommasino Offline
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dontommasino  Offline
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Toronto, Ontario
If the mafia has a beef w/ someone I don't picture them taking it to Judge Wopner:). Were more likely to find pieces of the person they have a beef with in several garbage dumpsters.

Re: Can theMafia sue? [Re: dontommasino] #511066
09/22/08 09:10 PM
09/22/08 09:10 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 534
Lompac Offline OP
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Didn't the Mafia start off as freedom fighters in Sicily way back? Mafia is a US brand, a well as a Sicilian and Italian one, so that means it has a place in Americas history, which gives it a massive amount of leeway.

Re: Can theMafia sue? [Re: Lompac] #511069
09/22/08 09:18 PM
09/22/08 09:18 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 599
Toronto, Ontario
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dontommasino Offline
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dontommasino  Offline
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Toronto, Ontario
Originally Posted By: Lompac
Didn't the Mafia start off as freedom fighters in Sicily way back? Mafia is a US brand, a well as a Sicilian and Italian one, so that means it has a place in Americas history, which gives it a massive amount of leeway.


But, again, why would the mob want to sue? They have their own way of going about things. That would mean putting trust in the Justice system, something were led to believe that is against the mafia's code.

Re: Can theMafia sue? [Re: dontommasino] #511071
09/22/08 09:22 PM
09/22/08 09:22 PM
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Posts: 534
Lompac Offline OP
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Ah, but are they following the code, or are just plain greedy?! If the mob followed the code, then why was Castellano whacked without the Commissions blessing?

Last edited by Lompac; 09/22/08 09:22 PM.
Re: Can theMafia sue? [Re: Lompac] #511076
09/22/08 09:30 PM
09/22/08 09:30 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 599
Toronto, Ontario
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dontommasino Offline
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dontommasino  Offline
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Toronto, Ontario
The mafia is indeed very greedy. But, you still won't see the entire Gambino Family sue Joe Smith for doing something amiss to them. Sure, individual family members have turned state's witness, but an entire family go to the law to sue somebody?

Their version of suing someone is three in the head.

Re: Can theMafia sue? [Re: Lompac] #511080
09/22/08 10:33 PM
09/22/08 10:33 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238
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Don Cardi Offline
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Originally Posted By: Lompac
Didn't the Mafia start off as freedom fighters in Sicily way back?



It goes way back to what is called The Night of the Sicilian Vespers. It actually took place in Sicily sometime around the 13th century. It was a rebellion / uprise against the French troops allowed to occupy Siciliy by a King that had taken over control of Sicily, supposedly with the backing of the Pope. The locals were forced to pay heavy taxes to the King. At the time Palermo was being inhabited by French troops. Legend has it that the French inahbitants, with the backing of the King, made it a tradition to force newly married Sicilian brides to spend the night with them BEFORE being with their new husbands on their wedding night. The French inahbitants of Sicily, backed by the King, were abusing the Sicilian people in many different ways, especially the woman. On one particular night while the sicilian people were attending an evening prayer service of vespers, a group of French officials came by to join in and began to drink. They then began to fondle the breasts of the women and with that the sicilian men decided to finally defend the honor of their woman. A revolt started throughout Palermo, and the sicilian men killed the French inahbitants. Hence the term : Night of The Sicilian Vespers."


There is an Urban Legend in Sicily that on that evening a Sicilian woman went into one of the churches in Palermo and found her daughter being raped by a French soldier. Legend has it that she then ran out into the streets yelling "Ma fia Ma fia" which translates into "My daughter! My daughter! Some believe that this is where the word "Mafia" might have originated from.



Don Cardi cool

Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.




Re: Can theMafia sue? [Re: dontommasino] #511082
09/22/08 10:35 PM
09/22/08 10:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
Lilo Offline
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MI
"Goodfellas don't sue goodfellas... Goodfellas kill goodfellas"
-Sal Profaci from "The Goodfella Tapes" by George Anastasia.


"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives."
Winter is Coming

Now this is the Law of the Jungle—as old and as true as the sky; And the wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the wolf that shall break it must die.
As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk, the Law runneth forward and back; For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.
Re: Can theMafia sue? [Re: Lilo] #511087
09/22/08 10:45 PM
09/22/08 10:45 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,950
DonMichaelCorleone Offline
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How come when I read this topic the term "2 yuts" comes to mind?


"You gave your word, I never gave mine"
http://s2.gladiatus.us/game/c.php?uid=88380
Re: Can theMafia sue? [Re: DonMichaelCorleone] #511179
09/23/08 11:05 AM
09/23/08 11:05 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 13
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SPWannabe Offline
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Wiseguy
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i heard the vespers night, the siclians cut the dicks off of the solgers and stuck them in their mouths.


back to the original topic, Sue for what?


CHECK OUT THIS PHILLY MOB BLOG!
www.phillymobspot.blogspot.com
SALVIE TESTA/ANGELO BRUNO/MORE
Re: Can theMafia sue? [Re: SPWannabe] #511187
09/23/08 01:32 PM
09/23/08 01:32 PM
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Posts: 534
Lompac Offline OP
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Each and every family and all members from associate to boss for having their "secret society" all over the movies, news, books and internet. Isn't there a law in the US that says a "secret society" has to be a secret?

Re: Can theMafia sue? [Re: Lompac] #511278
09/23/08 09:03 PM
09/23/08 09:03 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,514
AZ
Turnbull Offline
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Posts: 19,514
AZ
To take on your question literally:
While ordinary citizens or organizations have a legal right to privacy, "public figures" or organizations don't. So, for example, if a newspaper or TV station uses your image without your permission, and you can prove that doing so caused you damage, you can sue. But if you're John Gotti Jr. you're a public figure, and the law assumes that, as a public figure, people are interested in you and have the right to see your image without having the media constrained.

Mafia families may think of themselves as a "secret society," but their criminal activites have been exposed so often and for so long that they're in the public domain. It's inconceivble that a Don could bring the news media, or government prosecutors into court and say, "We're a secret society and you're causing us damage by exposing us to cameras, news stories, indictments, etc." It's not inconceivable that a Mafia guy who was exposed as such in a news story, could sue the news medium for "defamation of character," hoping to win damages but mainly to throw the media and government off of the track. But if he did take his case to court, he'd have to prove damage--which would expose him to defense interrogation and investigation. His own boss probably would whack him before he went to trial. And, as dt points out, a Mafia guy's beef with a civilian would be settled with baseball bats and bullets.

Movies and TV series are somewhat different. A documentary is like a news story. But entertainment, which can include fictional dialog and events, is different. Did you notice that in the movie "Goodfellas," Jimmy the Gent Burke is called "Jimmy Conway" and Paul Vario is called "Paulie Cicero"? I'm guessing here but the probable reason is that both were alive when the movie was made. Even though they were public figures and had been convicted of crimes like those shown in the film, the fact that actors played them and had them uttering dialog that they may not have said in real life could have opened the studio to a lawsuit by them or their families. Another possibility: considering that Henry Hill was the source for this material, the studio had good reason to take everything he told them with a barrel of salt.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Can theMafia sue? [Re: Turnbull] #511291
09/23/08 11:01 PM
09/23/08 11:01 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 99
Wisconsin
Ludovico Offline
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Ludovico  Offline
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Wisconsin
Originally Posted By: Turnbull
To take on your question literally:
While ordinary citizens or organizations have a legal right to privacy, "public figures" or organizations don't. So, for example, if a newspaper or TV station uses your image without your permission, and you can prove that doing so caused you damage, you can sue. But if you're John Gotti Jr. you're a public figure, and the law assumes that, as a public figure, people are interested in you and have the right to see your image without having the media constrained.

Mafia families may think of themselves as a "secret society," but their criminal activites have been exposed so often and for so long that they're in the public domain. It's inconceivble that a Don could bring the news media, or government prosecutors into court and say, "We're a secret society and you're causing us damage by exposing us to cameras, news stories, indictments, etc." It's not inconceivable that a Mafia guy who was exposed as such in a news story, could sue the news medium for "defamation of character," hoping to win damages but mainly to throw the media and government off of the track. But if he did take his case to court, he'd have to prove damage--which would expose him to defense interrogation and investigation. His own boss probably would whack him before he went to trial. And, as dt points out, a Mafia guy's beef with a civilian would be settled with baseball bats and bullets.

Movies and TV series are somewhat different. A documentary is like a news story. But entertainment, which can include fictional dialog and events, is different. Did you notice that in the movie "Goodfellas," Jimmy the Gent Burke is called "Jimmy Conway" and Paul Vario is called "Paulie Cicero"? I'm guessing here but the probable reason is that both were alive when the movie was made. Even though they were public figures and had been convicted of crimes like those shown in the film, the fact that actors played them and had them uttering dialog that they may not have said in real life could have opened the studio to a lawsuit by them or their families. Another possibility: considering that Henry Hill was the source for this material, the studio had good reason to take everything he told them with a barrel of salt.



Henry says in the book "Gangster and Goodfellas" that Jimmy's daughter (Kathy I think her name is) was giveing them a bunch of crap for useing her daddy's name. So they just decided to change the name and got off scot free.


I will be asking the questions! Because I don't know them!
Re: Can theMafia sue? [Re: Ludovico] #511349
09/24/08 01:56 PM
09/24/08 01:56 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,514
AZ
Turnbull Offline
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Posts: 19,514
AZ
Exactly. The daughter may have had a dubious legal case. But since anyone can sue anyone for anything in America, it was less trouble for them to change names.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Can theMafia sue? [Re: Turnbull] #511352
09/24/08 02:01 PM
09/24/08 02:01 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 22,902
New York
SC Offline
Consigliere
SC  Offline
Consigliere

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 22,902
New York
Thomas Gambino (Carlo's son) once sued his stockbroker who allegedly stole $2 million from him while he was in prison.

WTF??


.
Re: Can theMafia sue? [Re: SC] #511367
09/24/08 03:24 PM
09/24/08 03:24 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 99
Wisconsin
Ludovico Offline
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Ludovico  Offline
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Wisconsin
I don't think the mafia as an organization can sue, don't most organizations in america have to sign certain papers and abide by certain rules to be classified as an organization that has legal rights?


I will be asking the questions! Because I don't know them!
Re: Can theMafia sue? [Re: Ludovico] #511638
09/25/08 01:35 PM
09/25/08 01:35 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,514
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,514
AZ
It's interesting that you ask this question because many legitimate organizations use the law to protect themselves--and mount the equivalent of rackets--in ways that are far more effective than the Mafia's way of doing things:

A business, to be legally incorporated, has to be granted a Certificate of Incorporation by the state it's registered in. Actually, most of the benefit of registering goes to the business, because by legally incorporating, its officers enjoy immunity from certain kinds of lawsuits and even criminal prosecutions. For example, you can't sue an electric utility if the power went out and the food in your refrigerator spoiled. If a meat packer's tainted meat killed consumers, the company could be sued, but its officers or workers could not be prosecuted criminally unless they were proven to have knowingly and actively violated laws. And senior officers routinely avoid taxes by getting lots of compensation in the form of stock options (subject only to 15% capital gains tax when sold, not the topmost income tax rate) or via interest-free loans. Houses of worship and charities get tax relief in return for registering and following certain regulations (such as not contributing to or endorsing political candidates, not using donated funds for pastors' personal gain, etc.). Foundatons can be a real racket. If you form and register a foundation, all contributions to it are tax-deductable for the contributors. The regulations say you can't take money from the foundation for yourself. But you can use your foundation's money to buy a house, register it to the foundation, call it the "headquarters," and live in it. Ditto furniture, appliances, cars, etc. The Mob could take lessons from them.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Can theMafia sue? [Re: Turnbull] #511709
09/25/08 07:08 PM
09/25/08 07:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
Lilo Offline
Lilo  Offline

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
Originally Posted By: Turnbull
It's interesting that you ask this question because many legitimate organizations use the law to protect themselves--and mount the equivalent of rackets--in ways that are far more effective than the Mafia's way of doing things:

A business, to be legally incorporated, has to be granted a Certificate of Incorporation by the state it's registered in. Actually, most of the benefit of registering goes to the business, because by legally incorporating, its officers enjoy immunity from certain kinds of lawsuits and even criminal prosecutions. For example, you can't sue an electric utility if the power went out and the food in your refrigerator spoiled. If a meat packer's tainted meat killed consumers, the company could be sued, but its officers or workers could not be prosecuted criminally unless they were proven to have knowingly and actively violated laws. And senior officers routinely avoid taxes by getting lots of compensation in the form of stock options (subject only to 15% capital gains tax when sold, not the topmost income tax rate) or via interest-free loans. Houses of worship and charities get tax relief in return for registering and following certain regulations (such as not contributing to or endorsing political candidates, not using donated funds for pastors' personal gain, etc.). Foundatons can be a real racket. If you form and register a foundation, all contributions to it are tax-deductable for the contributors. The regulations say you can't take money from the foundation for yourself. But you can use your foundation's money to buy a house, register it to the foundation, call it the "headquarters," and live in it. Ditto furniture, appliances, cars, etc. The Mob could take lessons from them.


Exactly, TB!
That's one of Puzo's big themes, that there's not a lot of difference between the Families and some of the tactics of legitimate business.

Remember in the novel when a friend of the Don went to him to complain because a furniture salesman had stolen from him and his new bride by taking their money, never delivering the furniture and declaring bankruptcy.

The Don was astounded that such things could be legal. After he rectified the situation for his buddy he started pondering how he could exploit such legal ways to make money.
rolleyes


"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives."
Winter is Coming

Now this is the Law of the Jungle—as old and as true as the sky; And the wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the wolf that shall break it must die.
As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk, the Law runneth forward and back; For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.
Re: Can theMafia sue? [Re: Lompac] #520156
11/12/08 11:03 PM
11/12/08 11:03 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 13
S
SPWannabe Offline
Wiseguy
SPWannabe  Offline
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Wiseguy
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 13
John stanfa from philly sued his driver the day that he got assaulted on the highway. How messed up is that? the guy practicly saved his life with his driving and he sued him!

so yeah, its happened!


CHECK OUT THIS PHILLY MOB BLOG!
www.phillymobspot.blogspot.com
SALVIE TESTA/ANGELO BRUNO/MORE
Re: Can theMafia sue? [Re: SPWannabe] #520223
11/13/08 01:50 PM
11/13/08 01:50 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,514
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,514
AZ
Actually, it's not surprising. Anyone injured in an auto accident will sue the driver if the driver's insured. Spouses regularly file claims on their spouse's insurance carrier if they're in an accident.

Here's a local racket:

There were several referendums on the most recent AZ election ballot. One was the "Payday Loan Reform Act." The state's "usury limit" on loans is 36% per year. But, several years ago, the Payday Loan Assn. got a temporary exemption. These are loans against your paycheck. They can compound interest on those loans to 436% per year. The temporary exemption was due to expire next year. So, the Association put this referendum on the ballot. The "reform" is that they want their exemption to continue indefinitely--but they'll reduce the top compounded interest to "only" 396%/year. No wonder there's no Mafia in this state--look at the interest you can get legally.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.

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