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More Fredo treachery #503920
08/11/08 06:10 PM
08/11/08 06:10 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,512
AZ
Turnbull Offline OP
Turnbull  Offline OP

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,512
AZ
“My sixth sense tells me your brother Fredo brought a bag full of money,” Roth tells Michael at their last meeting. We know that’s just a figure of speech. We assume Fredo arrived by commercial flight because the tells Michael, “Jesus Christ, what a trip -- the whole time I'm thinkin' what if somebody knows what I got in here. Can you imagine that, huh? Two million dollars in the seat next to me in the plane?“ We figure that Roth had his pals in the Cuban government tell him when Fredo arrived—and the contents of Fredo’s suitcase. We also assume that Michael needed to signal Roth that the money was in Cuba so he could buy more time to find out who the traitor was in his family.

Uh, not so fast…

US law then (and now) prohibits Americans from taking more than $10k in cash out of the country. While US Customs didn’t scrutinize every departing citizen and his./her baggage, it’s a safe bet that Fredo would be checked out: as we saw at the Senate hearing a few months later, the FBI identified Fredo as a Corleone Family Underboss; and a Corleone traveling from Nevada to Havana would be a likely suspect to be carrying more than the legal amount of cash. Ditto Cuban customs: if they inspected Fredo’s suitcase, it and he would have been history. Michael would never have subjected his $2 million to such risks. So, I’m guessing, Michael would have arranged for Fredo to come in by charter, or some other less-conspicuous or even secret route.

So: Roth’s “six sense” was Fredo. Fredo must have told him that he’d arrived with the $2 million. And, if Michael had been alert, the moment Roth said that he knew the money was in Havana, Michael should have realized that only Fredo could have tipped him--and that Fredo was the traitor. Yet Michael didn’t acknowledge Fredo’s treachery until Fredo practically smacked him in the face with it later at the Superman show.

I guess Vito wasn’t the only Corleone who was slippin’.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: More Fredo treachery [Re: Turnbull] #503921
08/11/08 06:18 PM
08/11/08 06:18 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
pizzaboy Offline
The Fuckin Doctor
pizzaboy  Offline
The Fuckin Doctor

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
I thought Sinatra brought the money to Cuba.

Oops, wrong story. whistle


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: More Fredo treachery [Re: pizzaboy] #503924
08/11/08 06:42 PM
08/11/08 06:42 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 17,300
New York
Sicilian Babe Offline
Sicilian Babe  Offline

Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 17,300
New York
TB, I don't think it was that Michael was slipping. I think that it was a thought too horrible for him to comprehend. Poor, sweet Fredo? Fredo, who always needs taking care of? Who can't even control his wife's behavior at a party? A Judas?? And against his brother Michael, who he loves, and who loves him?

I think that Michael felt that, like Tom, Fredo was one of the few people who would never betray him. Michael was so alone in this world. Fredo was one of the few people he could trust, who he could relax with. I think that he couldn't even entertain the thought of Fredo's betrayal. You can see how painful it is to him at the Superman show. He acts as if he's taken a punch to the gut.


President Emeritus of the Neal Pulcawer Fan Club
Re: More Fredo treachery [Re: Sicilian Babe] #503926
08/11/08 06:48 PM
08/11/08 06:48 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
pizzaboy Offline
The Fuckin Doctor
pizzaboy  Offline
The Fuckin Doctor

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
What SB said. Plus, there's every possibility that he did pick up on it, yet refused to believe it, until Fredo's incredibly stupid slip at the New Years Eve party.


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: More Fredo treachery [Re: Turnbull] #503940
08/11/08 07:54 PM
08/11/08 07:54 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
AppleOnYa Offline
AppleOnYa  Offline

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
Originally Posted By: Turnbull
...Roth’s “six sense” was Fredo. Fredo must have told him that he’d arrived with the $2 million...


"I made up a lot of stuff about FREDO Corleone 'cause that's what they wanted - but it was all lies, uh - everything. And I kept saying - FREDO Corleone did this and FREDO Corleone did that - uh, so I said yea sure, why not. "


Originally Posted By: Turnbull
... Michael didn’t acknowledge Fredo’s treachery until Fredo practically smacked him in the face with it later at the Superman show.


Possibly because that was the moment he was given solid, absolute proof that Fredo had become involved with Roth.
(And it may very well be that Fredo himself was the ONLY one who could've provided it.)

Michael may have been suspicious of Fredo all along.
But....a) wasn't about to act on it until he was absolutely sure, and (more importantly) b) like pizzaboy says, couldn't really bring himself to believe Fredo was the traitor until there was absolutely no other possible suspect.

After viewing that 'banana daquiri' scene so many times it does appear he might be testing Fredo right there.


But then...you know all this, Turnbull. Nice way to start a discussion, though

Apple


A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.

- THOMAS JEFFERSON

Re: More Fredo treachery [Re: AppleOnYa] #503942
08/11/08 08:06 PM
08/11/08 08:06 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 55
New York
TahoeShooter Offline
Button
TahoeShooter  Offline
Button
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 55
New York
I think its very possible that Fredo told Roth he was coming with the 2 million.

But I also think its possible that Michael could have thought that Roth was just watching Michael's comings and goings and who and when they came.

Re: More Fredo treachery [Re: TahoeShooter] #503954
08/11/08 09:43 PM
08/11/08 09:43 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,019
Texas
O
olivant Offline
olivant  Offline
O

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,019
Texas
I don't agree TB. The $2 million could have moved through any number of hands any of which could have belonged to the traitor.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: More Fredo treachery [Re: TahoeShooter] #503955
08/11/08 09:49 PM
08/11/08 09:49 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 592
Chicago Underworld
Frank_Nitti Offline
"The Enforcer"
Frank_Nitti  Offline
"The Enforcer"
Underboss
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 592
Chicago Underworld
Apparently Michael DID in fact trust Fredo, he was the only one he would entrust with transporting the 2 million to Havana. Perhaps Roth knew this...and that's why he requested the 2 million, b/c he thought it would be the best way to get his mole (Fredo) to Havana where Roth could use him to keep tabs on his brother. wink

Last edited by Frank_Nitti; 08/11/08 09:51 PM.
Re: More Fredo treachery [Re: Turnbull] #503985
08/12/08 10:45 AM
08/12/08 10:45 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline
Consigliere to the Stars
dontomasso  Offline
Consigliere to the Stars

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
Originally Posted By: Turnbull
“Uh, not so fast…

US law then (and now) prohibits Americans from taking more than $10k in cash out of the country. While US Customs didn’t scrutinize every departing citizen and his./her baggage, it’s a safe bet that Fredo would be checked out: as we saw at the Senate hearing a few months later, the FBI identified Fredo as a Corleone Family Underboss; and a Corleone traveling from Nevada to Havana would be a likely suspect to be carrying more than the legal amount of cash. Ditto Cuban customs: if they inspected Fredo’s suitcase, it and he would have been history. Michael would never have subjected his $2 million to such risks. So, I’m guessing, Michael would have arranged for Fredo to come in by charter, or some other less-conspicuous or even secret route.



Back in the 50's there was virtually no security at airports, and it is likely that Fredo flew commercial from Vegas to Miami, and then hopped a plane from Miami to Havana. In those days there was a flight to Havana out of Miami at least every hour (people used to fly to Havana at 5 in the afternoon and return in the wee hours after partying in Cuba). Fredo could have legally carried the cash to Miami, and then taken off for Havana undetected, OR someone in Miami could easily have been bribed to let him through (for all we know Roth could have greased the trip with Michael's blessing). As for Cuban customs, I am certain they didn't care how much money anyone was bringing into the country.

Further evidence that Fredo flew commercial is that Fredo says he was worried that someone on the plane would know he had all the money. If he was flying a charter, that would not have been a problem.

My guess is that Roth's "sixth sense" was most likely someone at the Havana airport.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: More Fredo treachery [Re: dontomasso] #503986
08/12/08 10:52 AM
08/12/08 10:52 AM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 773
Pittsburgh, PA
The Last Woltz Offline
Underboss
The Last Woltz  Offline
Underboss
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 773
Pittsburgh, PA
I tend to agree with Olivant and dt.

Plus, if Fredo was the source - and the only possible source - of that information, Roth's "sixth sense" comment would have been uncharacteristically stupid.


"A man in my position cannot afford to be made to look ridiculous!"
Re: More Fredo treachery [Re: AppleOnYa] #504027
08/12/08 02:21 PM
08/12/08 02:21 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,512
AZ
Turnbull Offline OP
Turnbull  Offline OP

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,512
AZ
Originally Posted By: AppleOnYa

But then...you know all this, Turnbull. Nice way to start a discussion, though

Apple


Thanks, that was my intention. smile


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.

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