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Scarface this... Scarface that...
#485330
04/22/08 04:40 PM
04/22/08 04:40 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 276
Huntsville, AL
FrankWhite
OP
Capo
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OP
Capo
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 276
Huntsville, AL
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Hey, is anyone else tired of Scarface being mentioned when discussions of The Godfather or La Cosa Nostra movies, period, arise? This is NOT a mafia movie.
"From now on, nothing goes down unless I'm involved. No blackjack no dope deals, no nothing. A nickel bag gets sold in the park, I want in. You guys got fat while everybody starved on the street. Now it's my turn." (King of New York)
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Re: Scarface this... Scarface that...
[Re: SC]
#485338
04/22/08 05:17 PM
04/22/08 05:17 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 276
Huntsville, AL
FrankWhite
OP
Capo
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OP
Capo
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 276
Huntsville, AL
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hmmm... thanks SC, I got you. It just kinda gets under my skin when it's mentioned in the same likes of Godfather, Goodfellas, Casino, etc. I was just wondering others' thoughts and wasn't really sure where the thread belonged, but didn't really want to place it in the Scarface section as I didn't wanna offend any fans who may find this offensive.
"From now on, nothing goes down unless I'm involved. No blackjack no dope deals, no nothing. A nickel bag gets sold in the park, I want in. You guys got fat while everybody starved on the street. Now it's my turn." (King of New York)
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Re: Scarface this... Scarface that...
[Re: FrankWhite]
#485340
04/22/08 05:44 PM
04/22/08 05:44 PM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 22,902
New York
SC
Consigliere
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Consigliere
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 22,902
New York
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The discussion probably doesn't belong here (in this forum) either, but its no big deal. I don't know why anyone would be offended by your argument. IMO, its clearly NOT a Mafia movie, but I suppose some could confuse a "gangster" movie with a Mafia movie. Fuck dose cockroaches if they're offended!! 
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Re: Scarface this... Scarface that...
[Re: SC]
#485347
04/22/08 06:27 PM
04/22/08 06:27 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,020
Texas
olivant
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,020
Texas
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The discussion probably doesn't belong here (in this forum) either, but its no big deal. I don't know why anyone would be offended by your argument. IMO, its clearly NOT a Mafia movie, but I suppose some could confuse a "gangster" movie with a Mafia movie. Fuck dose cockroaches if they're offended!! Except for the foul language, I concur.
"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
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Re: Scarface this... Scarface that...
[Re: olivant]
#485355
04/22/08 06:53 PM
04/22/08 06:53 PM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 22,902
New York
SC
Consigliere
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Consigliere
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 22,902
New York
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Except for the foul language, I concur. That was for the benefit of the "Scarface" fans.
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Re: Scarface this... Scarface that...
[Re: svsg]
#485360
04/22/08 07:32 PM
04/22/08 07:32 PM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 22,902
New York
SC
Consigliere
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Consigliere
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 22,902
New York
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Is the distinction just a Cuban vs Italian origin or do you see something fundamentally different that they cannot be classified in the same genre? Define the genre. If it is "Mafia" (i.e. Italian organized crime), then "Scarface" doesn't belong there. I think that's what FrankWhite was saying, and I agree. Otherwise, as a "gangster" movie (be it Cuban or Columbian or whatever) I WOULD include it in the same genre.
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Re: Scarface this... Scarface that...
[Re: SC]
#485363
04/22/08 08:44 PM
04/22/08 08:44 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,098
Existential Well
svsg
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,098
Existential Well
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Is the distinction just a Cuban vs Italian origin or do you see something fundamentally different that they cannot be classified in the same genre? Define the genre. If it is "Mafia" (i.e. Italian organized crime), then "Scarface" doesn't belong there. I think that's what FrankWhite was saying, and I agree. Otherwise, as a "gangster" movie (be it Cuban or Columbian or whatever) I WOULD include it in the same genre. I was referring to the "gangster/mob" as a genre. I think we are in agreement then. Olivant, I personally find Godfather to be of much higher quality in direction, acting, music, cinematography etc. etc. But genre is seldom defined in terms of quality, right? Bad comedy is still comedy!
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Re: Scarface this... Scarface that...
[Re: svsg]
#485403
04/23/08 09:45 AM
04/23/08 09:45 AM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 276
Huntsville, AL
FrankWhite
OP
Capo
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OP
Capo
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 276
Huntsville, AL
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Is the distinction just a Cuban vs Italian origin or do you see something fundamentally different that they cannot be classified in the same genre? Define the genre. If it is "Mafia" (i.e. Italian organized crime), then "Scarface" doesn't belong there. I think that's what FrankWhite was saying, and I agree. Otherwise, as a "gangster" movie (be it Cuban or Columbian or whatever) I WOULD include it in the same genre. I was referring to the "gangster/mob" as a genre. I think we are in agreement then. Olivant, I personally find Godfather to be of much higher quality in direction, acting, music, cinematography etc. etc. But genre is seldom defined in terms of quality, right? Bad comedy is still comedy! no no no... svsg. that is not the point. Scarface is about the rise and fall of one man (Tony Montana). La Cosa Nostra is about the "family". The Godfather portrays this dynamic to the "tee" (which I never knew what that expression means but anyway... lol). And that is the dynamic that I am in search of when I endulge in mafia movies, not "shoot em up... bang bang". That is not what I look for.
"From now on, nothing goes down unless I'm involved. No blackjack no dope deals, no nothing. A nickel bag gets sold in the park, I want in. You guys got fat while everybody starved on the street. Now it's my turn." (King of New York)
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Re: Scarface this... Scarface that...
[Re: FrankWhite]
#485420
04/23/08 12:21 PM
04/23/08 12:21 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,517
AZ
Turnbull
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,517
AZ
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I've only seen "Scarface" three or four times, but I'll put in my two cents:
First, neither "Scarface" nor GF is a gangster film, per se. "Scarface" is about the rise and fall of an individual--rags to riches to grave--with immigration and its opportunities as the defining milieu. GF is about a family, with the Mafia as the defining milieu. But it isn't a Mafia movie. To make an analogy: "Gone with the Wind" is a movie about a family, with the US Civil War as the defining milieu. But it isn't a Civil War movie per se.
Second, "Scarface" has a tremendous following, centered, IMO, on the Tony Montana character as played by Pacino as the most over-the-top gangster in film history. "The World Is Yours..." GF is infinitely more refined, nuanced, complex...absorbing. But, to each his own...
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
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Re: Scarface this... Scarface that...
[Re: Turnbull]
#485427
04/23/08 12:27 PM
04/23/08 12:27 PM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 22,902
New York
SC
Consigliere
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Consigliere
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 22,902
New York
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GF is about a family, with the Mafia as the defining milieu. But it isn't a Mafia movie.  Not a Mafia movie!!!??? I think those lights in the sky over Arizona last night sent down some rays that "affected" your thinking. 
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Re: Scarface this... Scarface that...
[Re: Turnbull]
#485430
04/23/08 12:33 PM
04/23/08 12:33 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,020
Texas
olivant
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,020
Texas
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I've only seen "Scarface" three or four times, but I'll put in my two cents:
First, neither "Scarface" nor GF is a gangster film, per se. "Scarface" is about the rise and fall of an individual--rags to riches to grave--with immigration and its opportunities as the defining milieu. GF is about a family, with the Mafia as the defining milieu. But it isn't a Mafia movie. To make an analogy: "Gone with the Wind" is a movie about a family, with the US Civil War as the defining milieu. But it isn't a Civil War movie per se.
Second, "Scarface" has a tremendous following, centered, IMO, on the Tony Montana character as played by Pacino as the most over-the-top gangster in film history. "The World Is Yours..." GF is infinitely more refined, nuanced, complex...absorbing. But, to each his own... Exactly. And as such, Scarface doesn't even come close to the nuance of The Godfather. It doesn't even come close to the depth of The Godfather. Scarface feeds on itself; The Godfather feeds at a buffet.
"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
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Re: Scarface this... Scarface that...
[Re: Turnbull]
#485480
04/23/08 06:19 PM
04/23/08 06:19 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 276
Huntsville, AL
FrankWhite
OP
Capo
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OP
Capo
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 276
Huntsville, AL
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Yeah... I think TB kinda reiterated some of my same sentiments, BUT, I have to disagree with GF not being a mafia film, afterall, that's mafioso is about... the Family.
"From now on, nothing goes down unless I'm involved. No blackjack no dope deals, no nothing. A nickel bag gets sold in the park, I want in. You guys got fat while everybody starved on the street. Now it's my turn." (King of New York)
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Re: Scarface this... Scarface that...
[Re: FrankWhite]
#485484
04/23/08 06:23 PM
04/23/08 06:23 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,020
Texas
olivant
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,020
Texas
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Yeah... I think TB kinda reiterated some of my same sentiments, BUT, I have to disagree with GF not being a mafia film, afterall, that's mafioso is about... the Family. Mafia is about the Family, not the family. The GF as about the family.
Last edited by olivant; 04/23/08 06:24 PM.
"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
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Re: Scarface this... Scarface that...
[Re: olivant]
#485496
04/23/08 08:44 PM
04/23/08 08:44 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238
The Ravenite Social Club
Don Cardi
Caporegime
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Caporegime
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238
The Ravenite Social Club
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Yeah... BUT, I have to disagree with GF not being a mafia film, afterall, that's mafioso is about... the Family. Mafia is about the Family, not the family. The GF as about the family. I have to agree with you Frank. While the main theme of the GF Trilogy is about the family and how their business affected it, it is, in my opinion, a Mafia movie that is also about The Family.
Don Cardi  Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.
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Re: Scarface this... Scarface that...
[Re: Don Cardi]
#485555
04/24/08 09:59 AM
04/24/08 09:59 AM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 276
Huntsville, AL
FrankWhite
OP
Capo
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OP
Capo
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 276
Huntsville, AL
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Yeah... BUT, I have to disagree with GF not being a mafia film, afterall, that's mafioso is about... the Family. Mafia is about the Family, not the family. The GF as about the family. I have to agree with you Frank. While the main theme of the GF Trilogy is about the family and how their business affected it, it is, in my opinion, a Mafia movie that is also about The Family. hmmm... good point Oliv. I can see where you're coming from with that, but I think it's more about the Family than you're accepting. see, without the Family, this family would not have any of the plot developments that it has. See, with La Cosa Nostra, lines between the Family and the family become so ambiguous, that it's pretty much synonomous. and I agree with you too DC.
"From now on, nothing goes down unless I'm involved. No blackjack no dope deals, no nothing. A nickel bag gets sold in the park, I want in. You guys got fat while everybody starved on the street. Now it's my turn." (King of New York)
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Care to share some of that good stuff that you seem to be taking lately before making your replies? 
