Props to Apple who inspired this thread in response to my PM.

I understand this subject has been visited before, and I also understand that there is some sense that Tom Brought Luca Brasi along "just in case."

Actually I don't think it would have been Luca for a couple of reasons. First off, I think Luca probably left the wedding right after he and the Don had their little talk.
Second, Tom would have had to get a late afternoon or early evening flight out to LA (or at least to some destination in the west) immediately. Luca in the 1940's does not stike me as the kind of guy who would enjoy flying, and I am not too sure that Tom would want him as a seat mate on a coast to coast ride on a DC 3. Third, Luca would be way too conspicuous flying on a plane with Tom (who after all wasn't on the muscle end of the family).

My guesses would be:

1) Someone in the labor union that the Corleones controlled in LA (remember Tom told Woltz that hey was going to have labor troubles).

2) An insider at Woltz' house...maybe the guy who showed them the horse.

3) The star who was moving from marijuana to heroin. Tom would have told the star that he knew a guy in New york named Sollozzo who could supply him for life, and that the Corleones would pay for it if only he would do the family a "small service."

People with the Molinari family on the coast.

Wouldn't it be a riot if it were Fredo?

From what I've read, he was 'tougher' in the novel anyway.

That would give a whole new dimension to his rant in GFII...

"You're my kid brother and you take care of me. Did you ever think about that - did you ever once think about that! Send FREDO off to do this; send FREDO off to do that! Let FREDO to take care of some Mickey Mouse night club somewhere! Send FREDO to cut up some god damn horse! Send FREDO to pick somebody up at the airport!!..."

According to the book, Hagen returned from California late Tuesday evening and told Don C. the results of his meeting with Woltz. Then, on Wednesday, Vito gave Hagen his instructions.

Puzo writes that "the instructions consumed the rest of Hagen's working day....."

From that, I don't think that there is much that we can assume, other than the fact that even if Luca was along on the trip with Tom, and I also tend to think that he wasn't, nothing was done for at least a few days (assuming that Connie's wedding took place on the prior Saturday or Sunday).

The instructions that Tom carried out could have been anything.

Remember that, as Puzo again wrote, it was wartime and transcontinental flights were not so readily available to civilians, so Tom possibly spent the day making Luca's travel arrangements.

Or, as has been suggested, setting up the beheading with friends of the Corleones on the coast, either muscle from within the labor union or from another family.

I can't see some heroin-addicted actor doing it, though. This was a job for a professional, and a man of strength. I don't imagine that it's easy to hack a horse's head off.

That's a good point.

Because the scene where Woltz wakes up to find the head takes place immediately after Tom leaves the house, it is easy to assume that Khartoum was killed that same night.
Probably not though..something of that scale (not just the slaughter but getting the head into the house, upstairs and into the bed) would have to be arranged carefully.

This was no simple 'Leave the gun; take the cannoli's' job!

Apple

The butler did it!

Tony, the stable guy, would've had to have something to do with it. Didn't the book mention that it was odd that nobody heard a sound from the stables, although Woltz had workers there?

I would also assume that they would've had to drug Woltz, because it can't be easy to sneak a horse's head into somebody's room. What amazed me is, between the blood and the satin sheets, that he didn't just slide right out of bed.

Whoever it was probably used an axe i reckon...

rumor has it that this will be one of the missions in the new upcoming video game. i know this should be placed in the other boards concerning games, but it seemed relevant. either way, maybe i'll be the one to wack khartoum.

Actually in one of the versions of the trilogy ( I think its the sequential one) we see that Woltz is doing that young girl starlet, and that Tom has in fact returned from California before the horse is killed. In a conference with Sonny and the Don, Tom contemplates the idea of using the girl as blackmail, but they reject the idea, and then, they obviously come up with a more heady idea.

P.S. In GF 4 we learn that some of Khartoum's sperm was frozen and that he ended up siring a racehorse which won the Kentucky Derby.

Interesting (sort of)...but it doesn't address your initial inquiry as to exactly WHO killed the horse.

Apple

I say that it HAD to be an inside job. Someone on the inside of Woltz's estate had to be bought off. It's the only way that the job could have been done. Someone close and trusted by Woltz. My bet would be that the stable guy, which I think is named Tony, was the guy who was bought off to kill the horse. It did not appear to me that Woltz was the kind of guy who was loved by his workers. Now I don't think that Tom would have been the one to approach Tony the stable guy. It would have had to be done through a third party, perhaps someone from the Molinari family, as to not tie the job directly to Johnny and The Corleones.


Don Cardi

Michael killed the horse. It was the beginning of Michaels descent into darkness and ruthlessness. Or at least that's what he wanted it to be. Mike killed Khartoum, in the hopes that they would consider that as "making his bones." Sonny and Vito just laughed at him, so Mike got mad and left, didn't come back until he found out his father was shot. Even after Mike got punched in the face by McKlusky, he didn't really wanna whack him. Here's my take on how the plot went down:

MIKE: I don't wanna kill em, Sonny, I DON'T WANNA!

SONNY: Now you listen here, you prissy little college punk! You're gonna go to that restaurant, your gonna stuff that turkey, your gonna roast that pig, and that's that! Then we're gonna ship you off to Sicily where you can get a little bit of culture!

It was Mike.

I don't think it was Tony who did the actual killing, but he was certainly paid off to look the other way.

In the book, Puzo writes

The men on night duty claimed they had heard nothing. To Woltz this seemed impossible. They had been bought off and they could be made to tell who had done the buying.

In the book, Woltz speculates that for it to have happened his whole staff would have had to have been rendered moot. As I said above and as Cardi says, I'll bet it was carried out by the Molinari family. They were goldfish lovers anyway.

Then again it could have been Johnny Fontaine and his rat pack buddies in a drunken stupor.

Has anyone considered it may have been one of the other horses envious of all the praise heaped on Cartoon by his owner?

No, because it's physically impossible for a horse to behead another horse.

Because an animal couldn't possibly come up with the idea.

Because it was the Corleone Family who needed to relay a message to Mr. Woltz, not a jealous stable horse.

Apple

ps - I realize henry's post was made in complete fun and I was having fun in response...BUT the spelling of 'Cartoon' has GOT to be either a joke or just about the silliest thing I've ever seen on this Board (many of my own posts excepted)...especially considering the correct spelling of the horse's name is right there in the subject line.

Please don't take the above comment personally...as a general rule, I embrace all kinds of people's cultures and opinions.

Isn't this statement something that should be posted over in General under the THINGS YOU WOULD NEVER HEAR ON THE BB topic?


Don Cardi

Don Cardi,



Apple

Khartoum committed suicide.

UNLESS OF COURSE THE NAME OF THE HORSE IS THE FAMOUS MISTER ED!

HOW TRUE, dontom !!!



So to find out for sure who beheaded Khartoum...

Go right to the source and ask the horse....!!!

Apple

Yeah, nothing is like hearing it outta horse's mouth.

I am not so sure it was the Molinari family because it would seem like they were doing an inordinate number of favors for the Corleones...after all didnt they guarantee Fredo's safety in Vegas, or bankroll Moe Green or something?

While the Molinari family guaranteed Fredo's safety, it was the Corleone family that bankrolled Moe's casino. In any case, it could have been the Falcone family which controlled the hollywood movie unions. They should have had the more immediate access to Woltz.

It was Mama Corleone, in the drawing room with the candlestick.