who was the better Business man and who had the better
deal.

Sosa by a mile. Sollozo could not stand on his own two feet, Sosa could. Sollozo needed the backing of other families, Sosa needed no backing. Sollozo failed to kill Vito, Sosa succeeded in killing Tony. Sollozo was trying to become rich, Sosa was rich!

Good question though!


Don Cardi

Sosa has his own above-legality drug kingdom down in South America that until the f*ck-up in New York City that brings the heat upon him.

Sosa by a homerun and a steroid shot or two.

I would have to go with Sosa. he had his own little army

I'd go with The Turk on this one. He was a smarter man then Sosa who was just some small time Colombian cartel drug dealer. Solozzo had the backings of theFive familys. The fact that he had a one on one meeting with 'the godfather' himself speaks for it's self.

Sosa was pretty much as powerful, if not more so then some of the 5 Families. Anyone who wasn't a complete joke could get a meeting with Don Vito. The fact that he got Don Vito shot, was pretty much Fredo's fault for not having any balls and suspecting Paullie as the scumbag he was, and was really the spawn of Barzini or maybe Tattaglia.

No, Sosa was definately MUCH more powerful then Solozzo, and, you have to remember, Sosa ends up winning his war.

The question isnt who is the most powerful it's who is the better business man. Who knows, if Solozzo had stuck around for a few more years he might have been as powerful as Sosa. Solozzo's death could not have been prevented because of the fact that all of the necissary procations were taken.

Solozzo had the great Don of New York city shot. I dont understand how you could give 'credit' to Frado seeing as he wasnt responsible for the shooting. The fact that he didnt have any 'balls' doesnt matter here. Him not dropping the gun wouldnt have prevented anything seeing as Vito Corleone was already shot.

Sosa was deffinetly not even close to the power that even one of the five families held. Sosa's main problem was that he didnt have any friends in high places [this is why Tony Montana is given the job to kill the Goverment offical]. The five familes, especially the Corleone family had many politicains in there pocket, but this is beside the fact because Sosa wasnt a member of the Corleone family, it's just a point you brought up which I believe is incorrect.

Sosa may have won his war, but first of all that doesnt make a great business man. A second point would be who is the better singer, John Lennon or 50 cent? Just because your dead doesnt you werent one of the best.

You cannot speculate "if Solozzo stuck around..."
We have to make the decision based on what we know about the two characters, not what "could have been."

Sollozo didn't have anybody shot on his own! Sollozo could NEVER have outfought Don Vito without the backing of Barzini and Tattaglia!


Why are you now comparing Sosa's power with power of the Five Families? We are talking about Sosa and Sollozo. Then you say that Sosa did NOT have many friends in high places? I really suggest that you go back and watch the movie very closely again! Sosa had many friends in high places as seen at the meeting with Sosa, Tony and all the "high" ranking officials and businessmen! The reason that Tony is offered the job is because Sosa was smart enough to figure out that Tony was in a real jam, and that he and his associates could use Tony's problem to solve their own problem! And if Tony carries out the contract, then Sosa would have had his friends in high places make Tony's problem disapear! One would have to have very high connections in some high places to make a problem like TOny's go away! Think about it!

Lennon or "fity cent?" I'm not even going to touch that one!

Oh, and welcome to the boards!

Don Cardi

Don Cardi, I am comparing Sosa and the five families because 1. Solozzo had the backing of these New York Mafia Familes and 2. this is the comparision Mosecarelli used to defend his belief.


I never stated that Solozzo had anyone shot on his own. I said that Solozzo was 100% responsible for the shooting of Don Corleone. He set it up. If sonny hadnt had that sudden out burst The turk wouldnt have had any reason to shot the Don. The five Families had to real dislike for the Corleone family except for the fact that they didnt deal with drugs, which wasnt a hug problem until Solozzo showed up.

'Sosa had many friends in high places as seen at the meeting with Sosa, Tony and all the "high" ranking officials and businessmen!'
As i recall all the man at th meeting were important in the Colombian goverment. This is a usless connection in this situation for two reasons. The first is that we all know that the lane of oppertunity is America and Second Tony would have been persecuted in the United States.

I used the fifty cent John Lennon comparision to show that just because your alive doesnt mean your the better musician. You saying 'im not even going to touch that one' would sugjest that i had insulted Lennon was I was actually giving a compliment.

Thank you for the welcome and the mature descusion.

The 50 Cent and John Lennon comparison was VERY stupid. First of all, it doesn't matter if you're dead or alive to be a good singer or not... Plus 50 Cent is an ant compared to Lennon... 50 Cent is a rapper, Lennon a singer... Sosa was already well established, had his own army, while the Turk had nothing. Just look who won in the end. Sosa got revenge while Sollozzo never finished his dinner...


Lennon was EXCELLENT alive OR dead...

Did you actually even bother to read my posts?

OK, ST, I see what your saying. I misunderstood the question and didn't realize who was a better businessman.

Still, though, I would say Sosa. You can't give much credit to Solozzo for Don Vito's shooting. 1, it was really set up by either Barzini or Tattaglia. Solozzo could never make a rat out of Paullie, or even have the balls to think of it without consulting the 5 Families. 2, if Fredo wasn't an incompitant jackass and got a little suspicous of Paullie taking so many days out, then this probably would never have happened. So, you see, Solozzo had very little to do with it.

So, lets see, what else did Solozzo do...nothing. He formed an alliance with the 5 Families only because they were hungry for drugs and Solozzo was the first to go to them. So, all in all, Solozzo accomplished 0, zilch, nada, nothing.

Now, its ridiculous to say "well if he lived a little longer..." because he didn't. He was stupid enough to underestimate one of the most powerful criminal organizations in America and got killed for it.

Now, as for Sosa, he had his army, he had his contacts, he spent years building and expanding, and becoming pretty damn powerful. And, it doesn't hurt to note that, as powerful and protected as Montana was, Sosa got to him, and won. Now, you can't be a bad business man and achieve what Sosa did unless you are very lucky.

So, in conclusion, Solozzo was just a drug dealer, who "was not that clevah..." and Sosa was a kingpin, who was, very clever, indeed.

If you had read 'The Godfather' book you would know that Solozzo was a very big drug kingpin in Europe.

And It was most deffinetly Solozzo that had Don Corleone shot. As I had posted previously, if Don Corleone hadnt refused Solozzo's expansion from Europe to America, he wouldnt have been shot at. It was Solozzo that had the Don set up. If you disagree with this fact then I offer you this information: Solozzo was murdered by Michael for the near-death of his father. Michael Corleone's, infact, the actions of the entire Corleone family makes it quite clear to me who was the real brain behind Don Corleone's shooting, Solozzo.

Solozzo was just the front man. When he was killed, as far as the Corleone Family knew, he was the mastermind. However, as we later find out, he had the backing of Barzini and Tattaglia. And they were killed. Why would he need their backing if he could do it all by himself?

The Corleone's NEVER thought that Sollozo was the mastermind. They killed Sollozo because they knew that he would take another crack at Vito. In actuality The Corleone's hit Tattaglia's son BEFORE killing Sollozo. If you recall, after the meet with Sollozo, Vito immedeatly tells Luca to go to the Tattaglia's to sniff around and see what he could find out. During that meeting with Sollozo, he never hid the fact that Tattaglia was backing him on his venture. Vito was obviously smart enough to suspect that Tattaglia was more than just backing Sollozo financially. So In retrospect The Corleone's never felt that Sollozo was the mastermind. It is only after the commision meeting that Vito realizes that The Tattaglias were not the backers or masterminds of the Sollozo venture, but that Barzini was really behind the whole thing!

( I've moved this topic to The GF Trilogy forum as this topic has seemed to lean more towrds a GF discussion than A Scarface one. )


Don Cardi

Only seems to prove my point more...

Solozzo was too dumb to be such a good businessman that Slim claims.

It's not that Sollozo was too dumb to be a business man but more that he was only a piece of the puzzle to pull of such a deal. He may have been the one that had the connections for providing the drugs and could very well have been the good "business man" on that end of the spectrum. But he could NOT go it without the help of Barzini, Tattaglia and The Corleones. Sosa on the other hand was a good all around business man. While he made the deal with Tony, it was more because Tony was there at the time and was willing to move more of the yayo than Frank was. However Sosa didn't need Tony to do business. Sosa was well set up way before Tony came along. Sollozo was not and needed the cooperation of at least Barzini and Corleone in order to get his business off the ground.


Don Cardi

I know...but the point I was trying to make was simply that Solozzo could not take the credit for the Don's shooting, therefore, should not be proof that he was a good business man. The only thing we know about this guy is that he had a successful drug operation, that does not make him a good business man.

Solozzo was the main reason behind Vito Corleone's shotting. The other family's wouldnt have needed Solozzo if they already decided to kill him

Clear Proof Solozzo set up the Shooting: Tom Hagen is brought to Solozzo, meaning he handled the shooting


Other prrof he was a better business man-

Yes, but Slim, he needed the backing of the other Families for a reason. He may have kidnapped Tom, but he could never have tried to kill Don Vito by himself. Why would Solozzo even seek the backing from any other Family if he was confident he could handle everything himself?

I guess I'm outta touch with the drug world. I thought you were comparing Sammy Sosa the baseball player with Virgil Sollozzo. Sheesh, what a dope I am.

AHHHH It kills me listen to you stupid people trying to say that Im stupid for comparing the two artists. The posters who continue posting:


"AH!!!!111 JoN lEnOn Is WaY BeTtTer than fIfTTY CentS!!111ELEVENTYONE!!! "

are just proving the point i was trying to make in the first post. you cant compare the two.

Slim, there is no reason to start calling people names. So cut it out!


Don Cardi

To get this thread back on track:
I believe that the two are almost comparable. Sosa obviously had a huge cocaine production empire, and a big organization behind him. We saw it all. In GF, all we saw of Sollozzo was Sollozzo. But, as Hagen told the Don, "he's known as a top narcotics man." In the novel, Hagen says that he has contacts in the opium poppy fields in Turkey and plants in Sicily to convert opium to heroin. So we can infer that he was a big time operator. More important: both Sosa and Sollozzo wanted to establish distribution networks in the US. And both needed help from organized crime figures. If anything, Sollozzo showed more ambition, since he went right to the top: Vito Corleone. Sosa sought help from Frank, who was basically a wuss.

THANKS guys for your input I never thank that something i
made would get so heated

I see your point Turnbull, however I look at it from a different perspective. I feel that Sosa was powerful enough by himself, and that there was no one over him, at the top, that he needed to go to. It's true, like you said, that Sosa used Frank who was a wuss. But Sosa was the top man and all he needed was for someone in the states to take care of the distribution end. So basically Sosa could have used anyone that he wanted for his distribution, and when he saw the ambition in Tony, he used him. When Tony screwed him, he exterminated him and in all likelyhood moved on to the next distributer. Sollozo on the other hand could not get his business off the ground without Vito and Barzini. When Vito told him no, he attempted to kill Vito but failed. Then in turn The Corleone's took out Sollozo. I totally understand how you are looking at the comparison, and it is a brilliant perspective, but on the otherside of the same coin, I just see it differently. Me, if I had to make a deal with Sollozo or Sosa, I would choose Sosa. If I had to take on one of them to take over their operation, I would stay far away from Sosa and would go after Sollozo. But that's me.


Don Cardi