In looking at Cicci's testimony do you think he betrayed the family? I thought he kind of took the committee for a ride although some of his comments could have hurt Micheal. I don't think that the committee would have been able to pursue a case against Micheal at all had they just gone on Cicci's testimony. So my question is did he violate the laws of omerta? And based on his testimony would be killed by Micheal or be allowed to resume his position in the family, after a prison sentence no doubt.

They couldn't pursue a case against Michael based on Willie Cicci's testimony alone. That's why they got Frankie Five Angles to corroborate Cicci's testimony. They needed the testimony of BOTH in order to pursue a legal case against Michael.

But Frankie reneges once the Corleone's produce his brother at the trial, thus making Cici's testimony meaningless.

Now as far as Cici breaking the law of omerta, well of course he did. However when giving his testimony he may have actually helped Michael more than hurt him.

---------------------------------------------

CHAIRMAN: "Did you ever get such an order directly from MICHAEL Corleone."

CICCI: "No -- I never talked to him."

GEARY: "Could you expand on your answer -- I'm particularly interested in knowing -- uh -- was there always a buffer involved -- -- someone between you and your possible superiors, who gave the actual order?"

CICCI: "Right, yea a buffer -- the family had a lot of buffers."

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So in truth, Cicci did not implicate Michael in any illegal activities because he testified that he had never received a direct order from Michael and there were always inbetween men, buffers, that gave Cicci the orders that possibly were sent down by Michael.

That kind of testimony, if it even makes it to trial, is eaten alive by any lawyer worth his salt. It's pure hearsay if Cicci testifies that Tessio told him that Michael Corleone was the one who told him to pass the order on to Cicci.

I believe that Michael made Pentangeli pay the price for himself and Willie Cicci. After all Cicci was Frankie's boy and Michael probably held Frankie responsible for one of his own guys turning rat.

However I've always felt that FFC should have included some kind of scene where Willie Cicci was "paid back" by the Corleones for turning on them.

After all Michael said that he didn't feel that he had to wipe everyone out -- just his enemies. And as far as I am concerned Willie Cicci became an enemy.

Me too, DC. I always half expected Part 3 to open up with the deaths of the Rosato Brothers and Willie Cicci. Especially the Rosatos. FFC really left us hanging with them.

It just makes me wonder was Cicci really considered an enemy after this and the Rosatos seemed like the Gallo brothers what was there fate?

Joey was murdered. I don't know about the other brothers.

Cicci was a small fish although an important soldier at least to Frankie. He was a source of information to the Feds, but not testimony. He could testify against Frankie and the Feds used that as leverage on Frankie to, in turn, obtain his testimony against Mike.

In real life, Joey Gallo was gunned down in Little Italy on the night he was celebrating his birthday which I believe was April 7th 1972.

His brother Larry died from cancer some years earlier. It was the 1961 incident with Larry Gallo that was the inspiration for the Frank Pentangeli Bar/Strangle scene in Godfather Part II. Larry Gallo was attacked and almost murdered in a bar on Utica Avenue, Brooklyn. Only the timely arrival of two cops who were checking out an open door saved him from certain death.


Albert "Kid Blast" Gallo is still alive but is rumored to be somewhat of a shell of himself since the killing of his brother Joey.

Cicci actually may have helped Michael when he testified that he never got a direct order from him. In fact, at the end of GF, he says, "Sal, Tom, the boss says for you to go on ahead...", which could mean that he not only got a direct order from Michael, but was complicit in Michael's order to "take Tessio for a ride."
On the other hand, Cicci's testimony that he never got a direct order from Michael made Michael believe that he was safe: that Cicci was the topmost witness that the committee had; and that since Cicci couldn't directly implicate him in any crimes, it was safe for him to perjure himself. And then, bada-BING! The committee sprang Frankie on him. Michael could have assumed that Cicci was part of that plot. And anyway, Michael never gave an enemy a pass, and Cicci did turn rat for the government.

The Gallo/Rosato brothers connection goes even deeper. Recall Frankie saying that "The Rosato brothers, they're takin' hostages...they recruit n*****s, they recruit s***s..." Those are references to the real-life Gallos, who kidnapped and held hostage several of the highest-ranking members of the Profaci Family (including Joe Profaci's brother in law who later became the Don); and to Joe Gallo's recruitment of blacks and Hispanics for his crew while he was serving a long sentence for extortion.

Interesting Don, But I could never get over how Michael just tossed Frankie off like an old rag!
An old timer that was close to his Father!

http://www.thegodfathertrilogy.com/gf2/ram/openvein.ram

Never forgot these words Frankie said to Michael he was right!

"Your father did business with Hyman Roth; Your father respected Hyman Roth; But your father never trusted Hyman Roth"

I'll bet that the Tessio ride scenario instructions that Cicci received were from Clemenza or Tom. Cicci wasn't lying: he never did receive a direct order from Michael. So, Michael knew that even with Cicci, he had nothing to fear.

isn't there a Bob Dylan song about Joey Gallo?

Yes. The glitterati were quite impressed with him and the way he died.

Not only did Willie violate omerta, but he even did so in a manner that would have been regarded by his associates and peers as being especially vile since it was given directly to very high ranking government officials and was also nationally publicized.

At the time period in which the film is set, Willie's testimony would have been incredibly shocking to all members of the Italian-American organized crime community at large-- not just to members of the Corleone Family-- as it would have represented a threat to everyone in the business.

It wouldn't have mattered if Willie's testimony was ineffective for the purposes of the government, if it was totally spurious, or even if it was ultimately helpful to the accused. The simple naming of a name in connection with any criminal act whatsoever is a violation of omerta-- and never mind the results. Willie would have been clipped faster than an outback sheep if any member of any family had a chance to take him out. Heck, even unconnected wannabees in prison would have welcomed the chance to stick a shank in him, and thus ingratiate themselves to the big boys.

Double for Frankie Five Angels, since he was Willie's boss and an old-timer himself... who should have known better.

The number one rule of omerta is that you don't talk to the authorities at all-- not even to tell the cops who might have victimized you in a violent crime. So to have blabbed to a group of US senators about your own regime in a public forum would push the concept of betrayal to a level that the boys would have seen as being as odious as the betrayal of Judas himself. Nobody from the old school would ever have believed that such a thing could happen, until it finally did.


Under the circumstances, Michael was actually quite merciful towards Frankie. After all, he allowed Frankie an opportunity to absolve himself and regain a bit of his personal honor by committing suicide. Likewise, Frankie was ensured that there would be no retaliation against his family. As Tom said, "It's a pretty good deal" and Frankie responded to the offer with heartfelt thanks.

Yes, the nationally televised aspect would have been very shocking. As you probably know, that scene was closely patterned on the Valachi hearings in 1962, right down to the organization charts, which you can see here (scroll down to the bottom):

http://www.gangrule.com/gallery/maps.html

Valachi was the first Mafia guy to break omerta on national TV. But Mob guys had been quietly ratting each other out to law enforcement for decades in order to gain favors or breaks for themselves. Charlie Luciano, as a young man, ratted out a partner in a drug deal to avoid arrest.



That's a good way to look at it. On the other hand, it would have been damn-near impossible for Michael to get at Frankie on that Air Force base. And many people on these boards believe that the phrase uttered by Frankie, "...an' their families were taken care of..." meant that Michael (through Tom) had threatened to harm Frankie's family if he didn't go through with the suicide.

Can you tell me what the phrase is at the bottom of your post?
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu è sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.

Thanks

My "signature" is the final verse from the opening song of "Cavalleria Rusticana" by Pietro Mascagni. This is the song that you saw Anthony Corleone singing at the Palermo Opera House in GFIII. His character, Turiddu, is carrying on an affair with Lola, a married woman. These opening lyrics predict his death at the end of the opera. Roughly translated, the lyrics mean:

Blood is found at your doorstep, but I don't mind. Because if I die and go to heaven, and find you there, it'll be worthwhile.