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The Corleone Family's Most Dangerous Adversary? #429430
08/26/07 02:14 PM
08/26/07 02:14 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 17
Darkshowers Offline OP
Wiseguy
Darkshowers  Offline OP
Wiseguy
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I'm sorry if this topic has been done. I couldn't find it using the search function.

Through all 3 movies and even the novel if you want to include it, who do you think was the Corleone Family's most dangerous enemy?

I think it's close between Virgil "The Turk" Sollozzo and Barzini. I would go with Sollozzo just because he almost got Don Corleone on two occasions, but he was unlucky both times. On first attempted hit, his button men should have killed the Don with those 5 shots but didn't. On second attempted hit, Michael just happened to stop by to visit his father at the right time or else Sollozzo's men would have got Don Corleone.

I know Barzini came up with the plot to get Sonny, but Sollozzo was much closer to beating the Corleone Family then anyone I can think of.

Re: The Corleone Family's Most Dangerous Adversary? [Re: Darkshowers] #429435
08/26/07 02:20 PM
08/26/07 02:20 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
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AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

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Yes, this topic has been discussed before, but not recently.
My money goes on Hyman Roth, by far the most clever and subtle of the Corleone foes. His intelligence and resiliency made him far more dangerous than the others.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: The Corleone Family's Most Dangerous Adversary? [Re: Turnbull] #429441
08/26/07 02:40 PM
08/26/07 02:40 PM
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Darkshowers Offline OP
Wiseguy
Darkshowers  Offline OP
Wiseguy
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You know, Roth is a very good one as well. He almost killed Michael in his home and then set up the hearing situation by causing Pentangeli to turn against Michael.

And also considering Roth is based off of a real life gangster Meyer Lansky. Lansky who is arguably the most intelligent mob figure in the history of the mob so yea, it may be hard to argue against that.

Re: The Corleone Family's Most Dangerous Adversary? [Re: Darkshowers] #429442
08/26/07 02:54 PM
08/26/07 02:54 PM
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olivant Offline
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The Corleone Family?

The federal government.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: The Corleone Family's Most Dangerous Adversary? [Re: olivant] #429448
08/26/07 03:24 PM
08/26/07 03:24 PM
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My own world.
whisper Offline
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whisper  Offline
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My own world.
Hyman Roth hands down.


The hero and the coward both feel the same thing, but the hero uses his fear, projects it onto his opponent, while the coward runs. It's the same thing, fear, but it's what you do with it that matters. Cus D'Amato
Re: The Corleone Family's Most Dangerous Adversary? [Re: whisper] #429483
08/26/07 06:10 PM
08/26/07 06:10 PM
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USA
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JMDII Offline
Wiseguy
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Wiseguy
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I think it would be the Sollozzo/Tatagllia/Barzini team who killed Sonny, nearly killed Don Vito twice, and fought a war with the Corleones. The guys from pt III weren't too shabby. They did kill the Pope so you have to give them credit there.


JMD
Re: The Corleone Family's Most Dangerous Adversary? [Re: Darkshowers] #429493
08/26/07 06:28 PM
08/26/07 06:28 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238
The Ravenite Social Club
Don Cardi Offline
Caporegime
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The Ravenite Social Club
 Originally Posted By: Darkshowers
who do you think was the Corleone Family's most dangerous enemy?


When all was said and done,Michael wound up being his own worst enemy. ;\)


But foe wise, I'd have to go with Hyman Roth.



Don Cardi cool

Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.




Re: The Corleone Family's Most Dangerous Adversary? [Re: Don Cardi] #429594
08/27/07 09:21 AM
08/27/07 09:21 AM
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Pittsburgh, PA
The Last Woltz Offline
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I think it would have to be Lucchese.

He's powerful and daring enough to wipe out the Commission in Atlantic City, but also legitimate enough to be a primary power broker behind Immobiliare.

His agents succeed in killing Michael's daughter, leading to Michael's downfall.

If only he wore contact lenses, he would have been invincible.


"A man in my position cannot afford to be made to look ridiculous!"
Re: The Corleone Family's Most Dangerous Adversary? [Re: The Last Woltz] #429596
08/27/07 09:44 AM
08/27/07 09:44 AM
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Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline
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With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
Altobello and Luchese. They killed MAry and caused the end of Michael.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: The Corleone Family's Most Dangerous Adversary? [Re: Turnbull] #429612
08/27/07 01:26 PM
08/27/07 01:26 PM
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Darkshowers Offline OP
Wiseguy
Darkshowers  Offline OP
Wiseguy
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With Roth, I do wonder sometimes. Roth was clever but after the hearings, how come he couldn't enlist allies and start a war against the Corleone Family?? How come he had to go on the run and were the Rosato Brothers killed? I mean after the attempt on his life and the murder of Johnny Ola, I would have tried to fight back. I don't think this was properly explained in the movie.

Re: The Corleone Family's Most Dangerous Adversary? [Re: Darkshowers] #429615
08/27/07 01:41 PM
08/27/07 01:41 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,019
Texas
O
olivant Offline
olivant  Offline
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Texas
 Originally Posted By: Darkshowers
With Roth, I do wonder sometimes. Roth was clever but after the hearings, how come he couldn't enlist allies and start a war against the Corleone Family?? How come he had to go on the run and were the Rosato Brothers killed? I mean after the attempt on his life and the murder of Johnny Ola, I would have tried to fight back. I don't think this was properly explained in the movie.



Good points and questions. I think the question originally asked in this thread should have been framed as threats to Michael, not to the Corleone Family. Mafia families do not go out of business. On the other hand, Dons come and go. Sollozzo was a threat to Vito and Roth was a threat to Michael.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: The Corleone Family's Most Dangerous Adversary? [Re: Darkshowers] #429621
08/27/07 03:39 PM
08/27/07 03:39 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
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AZ
Turnbull Offline
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AZ
 Originally Posted By: Darkshowers
With Roth, I do wonder sometimes. Roth was clever but after the hearings, how come he couldn't enlist allies and start a war against the Corleone Family?? How come he had to go on the run and were the Rosato Brothers killed? I mean after the attempt on his life and the murder of Johnny Ola, I would have tried to fight back. I don't think this was properly explained in the movie.


Roth had no family or organization. He lived by his intgelligence, his influence, and his alliances. He used (borrowed) muscle only when needed.
Roth didn't need to mount a war on the Corleones. He found a weak link in the family armor by enlisting Fredo in his treachery. Had the Tahoe shooting succeeded, the family would have been mortally weakened--either weakling Fredo would have been the head, forever indebted to Roth; or Neri, Rocco and/or Tom would have contested Fredo for leadership, plunging the family into an internal war. Either way, Roth would win.
Whan that plot failed, he lured Michael to Havana where, as the most powerful gringo in the country, he planned to have Michael assassinated. Had that plot succeeded (and had Frankie been killed), Roth still would have had the above Corleone family chaos ensue--plus, with Frankie gone, the Rosatos would have taken over the Corleone operation in NYC. And when that failed, Roth sprang the perjury trap on Michael. If that had succeeded, Michael would have either gone to prison for five years on each count of perjury; or, even if he was acquitted, his reputation as a "legitimate" businessman would have been ruined. The Nevada Gaming Commission would have yanked his licenses--and guess who would have picked up the pieces?
No, Roth didn't need an army. What he did need was to be smarter than Michael--and he wasn't. He was also too greedy for that $2 million. If he hadn't been so greedy, he could have had Michael whacked the moment he stepped off the plane in Havana, and that would have been the end of it.
As for Roth being on the run:
As you know, Roth is based on the real-life Meyer Lansky. The US Government had a, er, "erection" for Lansky ;\) late in his life, and attempted to prosecute him for tax evasion and "possession of narcotics" (he had some ulcer medication for which he didn't have a prescription). Lansky attempted to emigrate to Israel and live as a citizen. Ordinarily he would have been granted Israeli citizenship, but the US Justice Department leaned on the Israeli government to deport him. A lengthy court battle ensued. The Israeli governmment finally denied his citizenship application and canceled his visa. He tried to emigrate to South America, but met the same fate there. Finally, he returned to Miami, where he was arrested. But he had the last laugh: he beat all the raps and died peacefully at 81.
Roth, as we saw, was bounced from Israel and Panama--perfect match for Lansky. So, if we follow logic, we must assume that Roth was running from the US government, not from Michael.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: The Corleone Family's Most Dangerous Adversary? [Re: Turnbull] #429722
08/28/07 08:58 AM
08/28/07 08:58 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,527
In a van down by the river!
Longneck Offline
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In a van down by the river!
That sounds plausible, but should have been explained somehow.




Long as I remember The rain been coming down.
Clouds of Mystery pouring Confusion on the ground.
Good men through the ages, Trying to find the sun;
And I wonder, Still I wonder, Who'll stop the rain.


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