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Roth's shooter #420078
07/29/07 01:52 PM
07/29/07 01:52 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 10
Arizona
sleeper Offline OP
Wiseguy
sleeper  Offline OP
Wiseguy
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 10
Arizona
While watching the GFII on AMC after the saga on Bravo this weekend I wondered if it was Rocco who shot Roth and then was killed. I scanned the site and apologize if this is a repeat thread.

Re: Roth's shooter [Re: sleeper] #420087
07/29/07 02:00 PM
07/29/07 02:00 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
AppleOnYa Offline
AppleOnYa  Offline

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
Yes, it was Rocco...achieving the 'difficult, not impossible' task of eliminating Roth.


A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.

- THOMAS JEFFERSON

Re: Roth's shooter [Re: AppleOnYa] #420089
07/29/07 02:05 PM
07/29/07 02:05 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 10
Arizona
sleeper Offline OP
Wiseguy
sleeper  Offline OP
Wiseguy
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 10
Arizona
It's just hard to believe in FFC's version of the mafia that such long term and loyal employees were so expendable.

Re: Roth's shooter [Re: sleeper] #420090
07/29/07 02:11 PM
07/29/07 02:11 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 102
9
90caliber Offline
Made Member
90caliber  Offline
9
Made Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 102
 Originally Posted By: sleeper
It's just hard to believe in FFC's version of the mafia that such long term and loyal employees were so expendable.


Rocco's loyalty is a subject of debate. Arguments on both sides here:

http://www.gangsterbb.net/threads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1402&page=3&fpart=5

Re: Roth's shooter [Re: 90caliber] #420092
07/29/07 02:25 PM
07/29/07 02:25 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
AppleOnYa Offline
AppleOnYa  Offline

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
I don't think it was so much a matter of Rocco being 'expendable' as him being the best man to accomplish the job. Logic would dictate that had this been a less difficult and/or less important hit, it could've easily been handed down to reasonably experienced buttonman. However Rocco had to assure Michael that this would be done.

As for being 'expendable', ... this was the business they had chosen. Long term loyalty aside, you literally put your life on the line whenever you did a job for your Don.

Apple


A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.

- THOMAS JEFFERSON

Re: Roth's shooter [Re: sleeper] #420093
07/29/07 02:28 PM
07/29/07 02:28 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,528
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,528
AZ
 Originally Posted By: sleeper
It's just hard to believe in FFC's version of the mafia that such long term and loyal employees were so expendable.

Not hard to believe if you recognize Michael for the cold-hearted, manipulative person that he was. Rocco, who was brought into prominence in the Family by Clemenza, was little more than a bodyguard by the end of GFII. Neri, who was Michael's man from the beginning, had pushed past him. Rocco was expendable, Neri wasn't.
Though we might have expected Michael to value Rocco's "loyalty," we heard from him on that subject right after the Tahoe shooting. After telling Tom that he was the only one he could trust, Tom asked if he suspected Rocco and Neri. "They're businessmen," Michael replied. "Their loyalty is based on that." Uh-oh! \:\(


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Roth's shooter [Re: AppleOnYa] #420159
07/29/07 04:14 PM
07/29/07 04:14 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,393
Tampa, Florida
johnny ola Offline
Underboss
johnny ola  Offline
Underboss
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,393
Tampa, Florida
 Originally Posted By: AppleOnYa
I don't think it was so much a matter of Rocco being 'expendable' as him being the best man to accomplish the job. Logic would dictate that had this been a less difficult and/or less important hit, it could've easily been handed down to reasonably experienced buttonman. However Rocco had to assure Michael that this would be done.

As for being 'expendable', ... this was the business they had chosen. Long term loyalty aside, you literally put your life on the line whenever you did a job for your Don.

Apple


Difficult task to shoot Roth? I don't see it. What was so hard about going up to a person in an airport in the 50's and shooting him? Actually I think it was quite stupid. Wasn't there a better way of whacking Roth and getting away with it. Was shooting him in the middle of a group of armed FBI men, the way to go?


I love my Chrysler and tuna fish sandwiches.
Re: Roth's shooter [Re: johnny ola] #420162
07/29/07 04:34 PM
07/29/07 04:34 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
AppleOnYa Offline
AppleOnYa  Offline

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
Well, just going by Tom's incorrect assessment that it would be virtually impossible to get close enough to Roth to kill him.

It may have appeared quite simple for Rocco to be posing as a reporter, but the unseen logistics/timing of getting to that point while armed may have been a bit more complicated. Or shall I say...'difficult'.

Apple


A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.

- THOMAS JEFFERSON

Re: Roth's shooter [Re: AppleOnYa] #420174
07/29/07 06:11 PM
07/29/07 06:11 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,021
Texas
O
olivant Offline
olivant  Offline
O

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,021
Texas
 Originally Posted By: AppleOnYa
Well, just going by Tom's incorrect assessment that it would be virtually impossible to get close enough to Roth to kill him.

It may have appeared quite simple for Rocco to be posing as a reporter, but the unseen logistics/timing of getting to that point while armed may have been a bit more complicated. Or shall I say...'difficult'.

Apple


I think it was Tom's unspoken qualification that the assault was impossible if one intended that the assailant would get away.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Roth's shooter [Re: olivant] #420183
07/29/07 06:41 PM
07/29/07 06:41 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
AppleOnYa Offline
AppleOnYa  Offline

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
...I think it was Tom's unspoken qualification that the assault was impossible if one intended that the assailant would get away.

Possibly, but the dialogue between Tom & Michael would indicate that he feels the impossibility lies in getting near Roth:

TOM: That plane goes to Miami.

MICHAEL: That's where I want it met.

TOM: Mike that's impossible - they'll turn him over to the Internal Revenue, customs, and half the FBI.

MICHAEL: It's not impossible. Nothing's impossible.

TOM: I'd be like trying to kill the president - there's no way we can get to him.

MICHAEL: Tom, you know you surprise me. If anything in this life is certain, if history has taught us anything, it's that you can kill anybody...

Last edited by AppleOnYa; 07/29/07 06:43 PM.

A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.

- THOMAS JEFFERSON

Re: Roth's shooter [Re: AppleOnYa] #420199
07/29/07 07:36 PM
07/29/07 07:36 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 165
Boat House
Carson_Corleone Offline
The Best and Brightest Son
Carson_Corleone  Offline
The Best and Brightest Son
Made Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 165
Boat House
I'm with Olivant, it was certainly not impossible to walk up to Roth and shoot him (feigning that he was a reporter no less), rather it was an absolute certainty the assailant would never escape.


-In my HOME!!! In my BEDROOM WHERE MY WIFE SLEEPS!! Where my children come and play with their toys. In my home.

-My father taught me many things here -- he taught me in this room. He taught me -- keep your friends close, but your enemies closer.
Re: Roth's shooter [Re: olivant] #420218
07/29/07 08:44 PM
07/29/07 08:44 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,393
Tampa, Florida
johnny ola Offline
Underboss
johnny ola  Offline
Underboss
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,393
Tampa, Florida
 Originally Posted By: olivant
 Originally Posted By: Appleonia
Well, just going by Tom's incorrect assessment that it would be virtually impossible to get close enough to Roth to kill him.

It may have appeared quite simple for Rocco to be posing as a reporter, but the unseen logistics/timing of getting to that point while armed may have been a bit more complicated. Or shall I say...'difficult'.

Apple


I think it was Tom's unspoken qualification that the assault was impossible if one intended that the assailant would get away.


This I can agree with. Its similar to the killing of Lee Harvey Oswald. You would have thought getting to the alleged assassin of the president would have been impossible to get to, but as we all know it was fairly easy.


I love my Chrysler and tuna fish sandwiches.

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